bowlinra
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Hi Class.. My name is bowlinra and I'm a recovering folding aholic since 2008. I've spend the last week or so reading up on Crunching. It seems to have alot more moving parts than folding, so I need some help ramping up. Look like setup up an account and sign up for BAM, seems easy enough. Here are my questions: 1. I could use a better understand on point system and how best to utilize my hardware most efficiently. I understand you can crunch any just about anything, but I'd like to know what is efficient. So like in folding, I dont fold on cpus or older 500 series gpu, but 48 core servers due to the PPD/Watts ratios. What tends to be the sweet spots in the crunching world? 2. What websites are used for Crunching Stats? What's the http://folding.extremeoverclocking.com/ for crunching? 3. How do you monitor a farm? in folding I'm using HFM.NET, that push to Google Drive so i have a webpage for farm status. I'm just wanting to put my toes in the crunching waters, I'm not completely sold I want to retain my 1,895 kWh extra electric bill on this hardware to start over in Crunching.
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Orange_1050
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Re: How to convert from Folding to Crunching?
2015/02/11 01:46:01
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Hello bowlinra, you're most welcome to this party of gentlemen crunchers When you have first given this a try, I'm sure you will like it here. I went out of the folding business when it came clear how arrogant folders was treated by the project leaders. Crunching offers a much more freedom to support any type of project within medicine, diseases and science. Even several at the same time. Also, as bill1024 pointed out, over here, we are treated as donors by the different project leaders, and they act grateful for our support. Also, we mostly do whatever we want, supporting projects that appeal to every individual. However, we do have challenges which many of us participate in as a team, and I must sway, there is a strong team spirit here among the EVGA crunchers. When you have downloaded the Boinc Client, you will be able to pick any desired project from the list in the manager. I won't answer the same thing bill1024 already has answered, but there is a couple of things that could be good to know when you fire up. There are CPU projects, and there are GPU projects. GPUGRID for example, they are a biomedical project, specializing on gpu processing. They do this protein simulation so they are the ones that perhaps look most alike folding. So, if you want to give your gpu a run, you could give them a try. Every project has their own site, which you must sign into. Here you also must choose your team, otherwise you will crunch as a lone wolf. For your question No. 2. There are several stats pages around, but I'll show you the two places I visit at daily basis. My fav is BAM Boinc stats. The link will show you the whole team, and their credit. You can also navigate to show your own project list, like mine. And there is the Free-DC page, which I also visit frequently. Most of the projects offers CPU work, and each WU utilizes one cpu core, so on a i7, you will crunch 12 wu's at a time, that is if you have enabled Hyper Threading. (One wu will use one thread) You may crunch both GPU wu's and CPU wu's at the same time, but GPU wu's steal a little cpu so they might grab one core from you. Then there is the points. Basically we don't crunch for points, BUT... they add some fun to it. The points and the badges are the reward the projects give you, and I cannot deny stretching for a badge here and there. It's my comfort when paying the electrical bill Just for the record, both points and badges are totally worthless, so it's just for fun. The main thing is to support a project you feel for. Looking forward to see you around bowlinra
My Virgin Prime: 433*2^2188076+1 (658680 digits)
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Viper97
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Re: How to convert from Folding to Crunching?
2015/02/11 03:59:37
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Woot! Nice to see you looking into the Crunching side! Watch out it's addicting.
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robbysites
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Re: How to convert from Folding to Crunching?
2015/02/11 06:53:37
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Bowlinra, Welcome to crunching! You will enjoy this for several reasons. Most of which were outlined in earlier posts by bill1024 and Orange_1050. There are other crunchers that are very helpful getting started, tips, tricks etc. I just got in to crunching in October and here are the things I like most; 1. You can pick and choose what type of project to run (Things that interest you, as mentioned) and dedicate your resources to them. I am currently running WCG, Skynet Pogs, GPUGRID and a little Primegrid using CPUs and GPUs. 2. There are competitions! Team [link=mailto:Crunching@EVGA]Crunching@EVGA[/link] is a formidable competitor. 3. There is great camaraderie amongst those that crunch. 4. And last -There are some nice badges/bling that you get for your effort with each project. Glad you chose to give it a try! RS
MY AFFILIATE CODE-000H94333W
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bcavnaugh
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Re: How to convert from Folding to Crunching?
2015/02/11 10:09:01
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Grey_Beard
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Re: How to convert from Folding to Crunching?
2015/02/11 16:20:32
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Welcome. As my fellow brothers in this area have already stated, it is a very laid back and individual place. The projects are grateful and the challenges are neat. I am fairly new, but have been doing something like this for just about a year. I really enjoy it. I still do folding, as I switch back and forth. You can approach this however you want. I am committed to the medical and biomedical projects, but have been exposed to others and I do enjoy them. Sit back and enjoy the ride!
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Afterburner
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Re: How to convert from Folding to Crunching?
2015/02/11 16:54:08
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I only have one request! (And I know you pretty well, and are a valued member, this is mostly for those that come along later and wonder what Crunching is) Please consider Crunching just another way for you to wave our EVGA flag (So to speak). Many of us still fold or fold part time. Some of us dedicate our support to humanity while waving the EVGA flag in just crunching or just folding. Regardless of anyone's production choices, all are welcome in all forms of Distributed Computing
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Opolis
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Re: How to convert from Folding to Crunching?
2015/02/11 18:36:07
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I don't know if this has been said yet, but make sure to use the same email for all BOINC projects you attach. Also, remember to individually add crunching@evga as your team for each project, since it is not done automatically. Next, go to BOINC -> tools -> add project and browse the list. There are links to the website of each project. Choose projects that sound good to you and...enjoy! You can always run BOINC set to CPU only and fold on your gpu(s) to get the best of both worlds!
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bowlinra
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Re: How to convert from Folding to Crunching?
2015/02/11 20:16:58
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Thanks All for the warm welcome.. I reimaged my 6172 server with [H] Appliance ver 9.1, because it has the BOINC client preload. I was too lazy to drag a monitor down to my rack, so I try to setup everything for BOINC thru the commandline. I believe I got it working.. Did "top" can could see my Eistein project title thread executing. Check the stats, didn't see any points, wasn't sure I was even looking in the right place. Came home and could see the box hung during the day.. I've now seen it reboot several times tonight while running BOINC. I got to have a way to monitor the server without loggin into constantly. Is there something natively build into the BOINC client? Some recommended BoincTasks, but wasn't able to get that too run either. I've managed to stop the BOINC client and stop the services, but I have no idea how much work is done or needs to be done or can I send in what work has been completed. I think I need to do some problem isolate here. The box has run find with [H] Appliance ver9 and folding for over a year. Now [H] Appliance ver9.1 and BOINC I'm seeing things become unstable. Do we have any Ubuntu Boinc folks out there? How are you monitoring your boxes?
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yodap
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Re: How to convert from Folding to Crunching?
2015/02/11 20:57:40
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Have you considered running a modern version of Ubuntu or Mint and then remote in with Team Viewer or something similar. I have 0 experience with the [H] Appliance. As for the work units, it's generally considered okay to abort units that have not started and finish what you've started. Some times you have to kill them all. Also, you can try to stabilize by running the cpu at 50%. 24/48 or whatever you have. You may have to drag a monitor down just get her set and running smooth. I'll keep thinking on it.
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planetclown
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cuarc001
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Re: How to convert from Folding to Crunching?
2015/02/12 06:32:01
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To help clear up a few things I noticed in this thread just in case anyone else new to crunching pops in, an i7 won't guarantee 12 work units running. For example: an i7 920 only has 8 threads and so it will run up to 8 CPU intensive work units and then whatever non-CPU intensive work units you have such as WUProp, QCN, and Radioactive. It will also run any ASIC work you have set up from BitcoinUtopia and any GPU work you have set up. I also saw a few say that the projects are more greatful to the volunteers. This isn't exactly true. Some projects never respond to volunteers. A great example is Cosmology@home. I don't believe Ben has replied since like 2008... And there are more similar. I wont say that they are like PG as far as the arrogance, but what I'm trying to stress is that they are all different and so will be your experiences with them. There are projects as noted above that can use more than just CPU's and GPU's. You may also notice that there are a hand full of projects that can use ARM processors as well. You asked about efficiency and they are about as efficient as you get. Unfortunately, they are not work unit monsters. They take a while to complete and thus to get huge PPD as many folders are used to, you would need a rather large phARM to achieve that. Up front cost for that would be insane. So if you have them, run them. Just don't go out spending a ton on them expecting something fantastic. As far as simplifying things, please start with BOINCStats BAM! as you mentioned. You can create your account and join the team all from their site. The only reason to go to the project site would be to either look at your completed work units, get news on the project, or to set up a profile. (or possibly selecting specific work units to run) I also encourage you to look over my list here: http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1801908 You will find that I have broken the projects down quite a bit to help with quick reference. Despite what others may have said, one work unit per core is not exactly correct. Some projects do have multi-threaded apps similar to FAH except they don't have the insane points returns that you are used to. BOINC has not done a lot of support in the way of multi-threading as it still isn't that popular amongst many projects yet. Please take note of post 6 on that list. Some projects require additional software such as virtualbox, java, or Visual C++ packages for visual studio.
post edited by cuarc001 - 2015/02/12 06:44:35
Gilthanis - HardForums [H] DC'er of the Month 7/13, 7/14 and [H] DC'er of the Year 2014
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devlin85
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Re: How to convert from Folding to Crunching?
2015/02/12 22:27:22
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Speaking of folding and crunching.. how about some cryptocurrency in the mix! https://www.curecoin.net/ you're basically getting paid to fold@home.. it's gpu/cpu/and asic compatible. Asics just find blocks like normal, gpu and cpu miners get coins based on contributions to folding@home. Curecoin is actually growing up the list too, not as valuable as btc mining with an asic, but I'm seeing it gets better gpu results, they claim to pay 3x as much as scrypt or x11 mining on gpu. Gonna test it out later.
"Science is much more than a body of knowledge. It is a way of thinking. This is central to its success. Science invites us to let the facts in, even when they don’t conform to our preconceptions." -Carl Sagan
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cuarc001
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Re: How to convert from Folding to Crunching?
2015/02/13 04:59:53
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Did Curecoin finally change their policies so that you didn't have to switch teams?..... I know that is what FoldingCoin was working on a few months back. We have had these discussions over at [H]. When you look at the bottom line, you aren't getting rewarded all that much for switching loyalties. However, it is up to each person to decide if it is worth it. I for one am not considering supporting any of them until I can stick with my team. Otherwise it is nothing more than a gimmick to get free advertising each time their name shows up in the ranks. We have already seen Ripple Labs come and go. Gridcoin. SETICoin never really launched. CureCoin and FoldingCoin are the latest of these gimmicks to "attempt to bring more DC'ers" through cryptos...
Gilthanis - HardForums [H] DC'er of the Month 7/13, 7/14 and [H] DC'er of the Year 2014
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bcavnaugh
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Re: How to convert from Folding to Crunching?
2015/02/13 09:05:05
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devlin85 Speaking of folding and crunching.. how about some cryptocurrency in the mix! https://www.curecoin.net/ you're basically getting paid to fold@home.. it's gpu/cpu/and asic compatible. Asics just find blocks like normal, gpu and cpu miners get coins based on contributions to folding@home. Curecoin is actually growing up the list too, not as valuable as btc mining with an asic, but I'm seeing it gets better gpu results, they claim to pay 3x as much as scrypt or x11 mining on gpu. Gonna test it out later.
No Thank You BTW devlin85 did you quit on Bitcoin Utopia?
post edited by bcavnaugh - 2015/02/13 09:06:28
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karkulka16
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Re: How to convert from Folding to Crunching?
2015/02/14 18:30:29
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bcavnaughNo Thank You It's easy to be suspicious and cynical about monetizing DCNs - the crypto-currency world can be like the wild west ... but let's stop and think about how exclusive DCN participation has been. Guys (and its 98% men) running the biggest farms have funds to make that happen. It puts large producers into the category of "Yacht Racers" competing with each other for bragging rights. I really don't want to hear how people have gone broke through their participation ... that's a choice (an addiction really), that requires skills and resources to put together farms that big. Skills that can be applied to "great paying" IT jobs. Most participants in this sector are in the top 10% income bracket ($77,000/year). It's an exclusive club at the top - and while highly appreciated by Universities, Big-Pharma and hopefully Patients, can do very little outside of that bubble. Nor can you take your points and donate them back to the Universities to help fund servers and new pilot projects - something that crypto-currency folders have already started doing. We can't take our points or "bucks" and donate them to any cause other than ourselves, nor can we use them to pay for our electric bills, or get a tax break !?! Some of the things you CAN do with crypto-currency. Whether its worth $300, $0.01 or whatever. Not sure if everyone is aware, but Folding @ Home does take Bitcoin donations - and why not? Anything to help fund new pilot studies, or upgrade to faster, more reliable servers. You can convert gridcoins, foldingcoins, curecoins, etc. on digital currency exchanges for BTC and donate ALL of them to Stanford if you wish. With a little vision, you can start to see how cryto-currency could help participants in the developing world using their Android phones to fold (in large numbers) .. They aren't going fold for a team without incentives - since they cant hope to compete against "Yacht Racers" . They're only going to participate if they can get folding community support for their community projects like phone charging stations, wells, solar and wind power for LED lighting installation (since a majority of people there live off-the-grid). Those can all be funded through secure payment systems that don't gouge them for every transaction like Western Union et al ... crypto currency fills that void. It's in every cryptocurrency participants interest to keep mining decentralized - and mass adoption by Android Folding @ Home users could keep the network fair. Even if it doesn't, it will require a MASSIVE push to monopolize the DCN crytpocurrency networks - and thus a MASSIVE amount of research will results. I don't want to belittle the immense contributions of large-scale participants in F @ H .. by all means, keep doing what you're doing for the betterment of humanity ... but don't throw the baby out with the bathwater for those who can't afford to play in your pool. The future looks much brighter when everyone can benefit from a science backed economy. With that, I welcome the hate and "loathing" - but it certainly wont change my vision of an incredibly bright future.
post edited by karkulka16 - 2015/02/14 18:42:29
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karkulka16
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Re: How to convert from Folding to Crunching?
2015/02/14 23:01:08
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bill1024 In order to partake in CC and FC we would have to join those teams and most of us chose not to.
Yup that's a common complaint. I think gridcoin faced the same account/team challenge until recently. And FAH vs BOINC debate ... not worth discussing - agree. I get there are camaraderies formed - and everyone is proud of the work they've done together over the years ... helping each other out with technical issues, etc. Not trying get people to switch teams - only to recognize some of the more promising aspects of monetization rather than meeting those ideas with dismissive arrogance. Some of the applications and project proposals I've seen for DCN monetization in helping the poor help themselves have absolutely blown me away. And those just scratch the surface. Ultimately, we all want broader public participation - but we cant lose site that even an extra $25 a month on an electric bill can be a deterrent, esp. when you consider (for reference) an average SNAP Food Program benefit is $26/week in some US states. That makes one realize what we do is really a luxury. Cheers!
post edited by karkulka16 - 2015/02/14 23:02:10
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cuarc001
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Re: How to convert from Folding to Crunching?
2015/02/15 05:10:43
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Gridcoin still requires joining their team. The only one I know of that claims that you don't is FoldingCoin. However, Foldingcoin (last discussed with us) had limited options to make that work which still did not sit well. You had to either change your contribution name (thus losing all previous achievements behind) or give them the keys to your account to prove whom you were. Otherwise, they couldn't prove you were whom you claimed.
Gilthanis - HardForums [H] DC'er of the Month 7/13, 7/14 and [H] DC'er of the Year 2014
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bcavnaugh
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Re: How to convert from Folding to Crunching?
2015/02/15 10:07:23
(permalink)
karkulka16
bcavnaughNo Thank You It's easy to be suspicious and cynical about monetizing DCNs - the crypto-currency world can be like the wild west ... but let's stop and think about how exclusive DCN participation has been. Guys (and its 98% men) running the biggest farms have funds to make that happen. It puts large producers into the category of "Yacht Racers" competing with each other for bragging rights. I really don't want to hear how people have gone broke through their participation ... that's a choice (an addiction really), that requires skills and resources to put together farms that big. Skills that can be applied to "great paying" IT jobs. Most participants in this sector are in the top 10% income bracket ($77,000/year). It's an exclusive club at the top - and while highly appreciated by Universities, Big-Pharma and hopefully Patients, can do very little outside of that bubble. Nor can you take your points and donate them back to the Universities to help fund servers and new pilot projects - something that crypto-currency folders have already started doing. We can't take our points or "bucks" and donate them to any cause other than ourselves, nor can we use them to pay for our electric bills, or get a tax break !?! Some of the things you CAN do with crypto-currency. Whether its worth $300, $0.01 or whatever. Not sure if everyone is aware, but Folding @ Home does take Bitcoin donations - and why not? Anything to help fund new pilot studies, or upgrade to faster, more reliable servers. You can convert gridcoins, foldingcoins, curecoins, etc. on digital currency exchanges for BTC and donate ALL of them to Stanford if you wish. With a little vision, you can start to see how cryto-currency could help participants in the developing world using their Android phones to fold (in large numbers) .. They aren't going fold for a team without incentives - since they cant hope to compete against "Yacht Racers" . They're only going to participate if they can get folding community support for their community projects like phone charging stations, wells, solar and wind power for LED lighting installation (since a majority of people there live off-the-grid). Those can all be funded through secure payment systems that don't gouge them for every transaction like Western Union et al ... crypto currency fills that void. It's in every cryptocurrency participants interest to keep mining decentralized - and mass adoption by Android Folding @ Home users could keep the network fair. Even if it doesn't, it will require a MASSIVE push to monopolize the DCN crytpocurrency networks - and thus a MASSIVE amount of research will results. I don't want to belittle the immense contributions of large-scale participants in F @ H .. by all means, keep doing what you're doing for the betterment of humanity ... but don't throw the baby out with the bathwater for those who can't afford to play in your pool. The future looks much brighter when everyone can benefit from a science backed economy. With that, I welcome the hate and "loathing" - but it certainly wont change my vision of an incredibly bright future.
I am not "suspicious and cynical about monetizing" I only do not want to leave our Team folding@evga is all. I do run Bitcoin Utopia under Mining@EVGA but we keep it separate when using ASIC Devices to keep the Point Level Across Team members.
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karkulka16
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Re: How to convert from Folding to Crunching?
2015/02/15 12:00:02
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cuarc001Foldingcoin (last discussed with us) had limited options to make that work which still did not sit well. I think FLDC makes the change on their back-end to use your existing passkey, yet keeping your account name and team unchanged. That's my guess. Right now you can merge fold with both the CC and FLDC teams which does require a username change (and team switch). Not sure how much that opens one up to any identity theft (except if people want to contribute points on your behalf) bcavnaugh I only do not want to leave our Team is all. I guess to address bcavnaugh concern over switching teams ... I look at it like this. When I switched from folding anonymously to folding for a monetized team ... I switched from being a donor, to being a business person (or non-profit entity as it currently stands :-). So it wouldn't be fair to my team mates IF I'm earning anything for my contributions, while they still continue to donate. It would also co-mingles my points ... those I've donated vs those I've monetized - so in the future, nobody could tell where I drew the line from philanthropy to monetization. My contributions prior to monetizing were admittedly abysmal. Having the opportunity to pay for my power and cloud folding time turned me into a business person. As a consolation (again not cheering rah rah trying to convert people since I recognize this is a very personal choice), I've recommended people use their old team name in their new account to at least recognize their lineage JamesBond70-evga-team-contributor or LaraCroft78-former-evga-team_FLDC_1LodXZZXobrp3Vr6Rk82qC9B7jk6UT9pLa But something like that would require a consistent team consensus ... so the community would have to vote on the proper format to use, but I can already see a malicious person generating those names on the FAH network before anyone had a chance create them for themselves - and charging $10 ea for the passkeys on ebay :-)
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bcavnaugh
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Re: How to convert from Folding to Crunching?
2015/02/15 12:35:26
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karkulka16
cuarc001Foldingcoin (last discussed with us) had limited options to make that work which still did not sit well. I think FLDC makes the change on their back-end to use your existing passkey, yet keeping your account name and team unchanged. That's my guess. Right now you can merge fold with both the CC and FLDC teams which does require a username change (and team switch). Not sure how much that opens one up to any identity theft (except if people want to contribute points on your behalf)
bcavnaugh I only do not want to leave our Team is all. I guess to address bcavnaugh concern over switching teams ... I look at it like this. When I switched from folding anonymously to folding for a monetized team ... I switched from being a donor, to being a business person (or non-profit entity as it currently stands :-). So it wouldn't be fair to my team mates IF I'm earning anything for my contributions, while they still continue to donate. It would also co-mingles my points ... those I've donated vs those I've monetized - so in the future, nobody could tell where I drew the line from philanthropy to monetization. My contributions prior to monetizing were admittedly abysmal. Having the opportunity to pay for my power and cloud folding time turned me into a business person. As a consolation (again not cheering rah rah trying to convert people since I recognize this is a very personal choice), I've recommended people use their old team name in their new account to at least recognize their lineage JamesBond70-evga-team-contributor or LaraCroft78-former-evga-team_FLDC_1LodXZZXobrp3Vr6Rk82qC9B7jk6UT9pLa But something like that would require a consistent team consensus ... so the community would have to vote on the proper format to use, but I can already see a malicious person generating those names on the FAH network before anyone had a chance create them for themselves - and charging $10 ea for the passkeys on ebay :-)
You can also think of it this way; I like being part of a Team and our Team Plays very well together. A "business person" is only out for themselves, Not the Company, Not the Goal of the End Results. So with this Team Players play together and play to an end, a business person dose not. Also this is about "How to convert from Folding to Crunching" not How to Convert from One Folding Team to Another. This is Not the Frist time Curecoin has tried to ask our Team Members leave EVGA, they know we are one of the Best Teams out here.
post edited by bcavnaugh - 2015/02/15 12:50:53
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devlin85
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Re: How to convert from Folding to Crunching?
2015/02/15 12:46:52
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"Science is much more than a body of knowledge. It is a way of thinking. This is central to its success. Science invites us to let the facts in, even when they don’t conform to our preconceptions." -Carl Sagan
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bcavnaugh
The Crunchinator
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Re: How to convert from Folding to Crunching?
2015/02/15 12:48:39
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Removed Off Subject.
post edited by bcavnaugh - 2015/02/21 08:57:15
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devlin85
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Re: How to convert from Folding to Crunching?
2015/02/15 12:52:36
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I'm testing the curecoin network with my antminer s4 now.. a 1.38 TH Network lol.. let's see what I can do
"Science is much more than a body of knowledge. It is a way of thinking. This is central to its success. Science invites us to let the facts in, even when they don’t conform to our preconceptions." -Carl Sagan
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bcavnaugh
The Crunchinator
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Re: How to convert from Folding to Crunching?
2015/02/15 12:53:43
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devlin85 I'm testing the curecoin network with my antminer s4 now.. a 1.38 TH Network lol.. let's see what I can do
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devlin85
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Re: How to convert from Folding to Crunching?
2015/02/15 13:06:15
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damn! iSpace's profibility pool just hit it.. that's gonna ruin EVERYTHING!! my coin intake will drop but now the network speed is 50 TH.. lol.. I'm not a fan of iSpace.. see j.mp/iSpaceSucks.. my blog I'm working on.. testing coins with the antminer s4.. giving some real results not a bunch of estimates based on rough math.. See.. ruined.. damn ispace!!
post edited by devlin85 - 2015/02/15 13:14:53
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"Science is much more than a body of knowledge. It is a way of thinking. This is central to its success. Science invites us to let the facts in, even when they don’t conform to our preconceptions." -Carl Sagan
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Viper97
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Re: How to convert from Folding to Crunching?
2015/02/15 13:44:35
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The problem with quick profits is just that. Quick. Found, dumped, trashed. Anyone in for anything needs to look at the long run, not just picking up a few bucks in the short term.
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cuarc001
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Re: How to convert from Folding to Crunching?
2015/02/15 19:51:01
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Gilthanis - HardForums [H] DC'er of the Month 7/13, 7/14 and [H] DC'er of the Year 2014
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bcavnaugh
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Re: How to convert from Folding to Crunching?
2015/02/16 09:41:50
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Let's get off the Subject of Coins and back on the Subject Converting From Folding to Crunching. You can create a new Thread under Cryptocurrency and talk about it all you want. This seems to happen a lot lately.
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bowlinra
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Re: How to convert from Folding to Crunching?
2015/02/16 15:00:03
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Just for the record, you guys have completely Hijacked my thread.
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