The1stCAV
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I think I have located my issue using HW Monitor, but I am not sure if its reliable. So let me explain the issue I am having, then lets discuss the HW Monitor's results and what is the general consensus as to why I am getting these readings. HARDWARE I run an overclocked Intel 990X 6-core on an EVGA Classified 3 E770 board with the special edition GTX 580 3GB version GPU's. These are powered by a Silverstone ST1500 Strider 1500W PSU. I have had issues for quite some time now with power - somewhere. I have changed out motherboards, I have changed out two of the GTX 580 cards thinking they were the issue and yet I am still having problems. This issue has plagued me for a year or more now. HISTORY I was able to run all three cards with Nvidia drivers 285 and below - anytime I went above that I started having these weird power issues again. I was always able to roll back the drivers and the issues would stop. Then I talked to an EVGA tech support guy who suggested I go and update the BIOS, the Chipset Drivers, etc. So I did and started having the same power issues I had before when I would upgrade the Nvidia drivers. So I figured I would update the drivers to see if this worked - same issue still. So I called EVGA, they had me do some troubleshooting and it was determined that Slot 3 GTX 580 was bad. I was able to run 2-WAY SLI with Slot 1 & 2 all day long. So off went the RMA, back came the card, everything got changed out, the new card even went in slot two and two into slot three and yet I found I was facing the same issues. Two or months ago I went to fire Frank up and heard a loud POP - UPS went dead, PSU went dead, breaker popped. I went and reset the breaker, the UPS was completely dead, no life coming back to it. So I had to run Frank direct to the wall. PSU on Frank was also not responding. It was a Silverstone Strider ST1500W PSU, luckily I had a new one of the exact same model in my closet. I pulled it out and swapped them out and Frank came back online without issue. I then put a 2,500W PSU between Frank and the wall outlet to ensure I had more UPS than I needed - I like overkill if you haven't noticed. Now, if you have kept up with this story, we have gone through 2 PSU's, 3 Motherboards, 3 GTX 580 3GB version cards, new PSU cables, a higher grade UPS, several OS reloads and new driver loads, with and without the LSi RAID card in Slot 4, with and without the USB card in the PCI slot, and still having the same weird power issues when I try to game in 3-WAY SLI. I found running HW Monitor I was having slightly less movement on these values and was able to at least play with 2WAY SLI. When 3WAY SLI is initiated - game over. ISSUES So what are these "issues"? REDUCED FPS When I ran 3-WAY SLI before with the 285 drivers and before I updated the BIOS, Chipset Drivers, and other drivers I ran what I thought was good FPS in games and good quality. When I started updating things and started troubleshooting this issue once and for all, I ended up running 2-Way SLI with Slot 1&@ - and I got double the FPS and much clearer graphics with that third one out of the loop - weird huh? When I would go back to three way SLI, this is where the real issues began. POPS AND CLICKS/USB POWER I would have random pops & clicks in the audio, coinciding with these pops and clicks would be USB power fluctuating. The lights on the keyboard would flicker. The mouse would stick and have to catch up, things would go from bad to worse then the game was unplayable. BSOD There were times though I have not seen them lately that these issues would result in a BSOD as well. Though now I do find at times when I stress test that the drivers now simply crash and reset. HW MONITOR So where does your Title/Subject fit in to this above scenario? While troubleshooting one EVGA tech suggested I use HW Monitor to see if my voltages fluctuate - my question is how reliable is HW monitor with voltage monitoring? Where is it monitoring these voltages at? Here are the results: Notice the following: +3.3V - it moves from 3.18v to 3.04v and in between +5V also has some interesting movement as well from 5.05v up to 5.13v +12v also has the most movement from 11.37 up to 12.04, however another monitoring tool showed me 12.23v as the max it went at one time. So this is one reason for me doubting HW Monitor being 100% accurate - or is it and the other monitoring program (GPU-z) isnt monitoring it properly? QUESTIONS:Is HW Monitor pretty accurate in these kinds of readings? Would this be a PSU issue or a MB issue? What would cause these major fluctuations? Why would I have these issues with all these hardware changes I have made trying to troubleshoot this?
Asus RE4 | Core i7 3930K | G.Skill 32GB Kit 9-10-9-28 | EVGA GTX 680 4GB x3 3-Way SLI | LEPA 1600W PSU | Corsair Force GT 120g x2 RAID 0 Programs | Patriot Pyro SE 120g x2 RAID 0 BOOT/OS | WD Caviar Black 1TB | WD Caviar Black 2TB SATA | Asus Phobeus Xonar Sound Card - Sill in progress of 2013 upgrade........ VANTAGE: TBD 3DMARK11: TBD Heatware: http://www.heatware.com/eval.php?id=63019
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shaxx78
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Re:HW Monitor - Believe or not to believe?
2012/08/01 18:14:22
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It could be a possibility your socket at the wall is not providing enough power. If you have a 120v outlet with a 10 amp circuit breaker you are looking at 1200w. Another possibility is one of your components like a card reader or something similar could be causing the issue. I had some major problems when mine when out. I initially thought the Mobo was bad. Good Luck and I will try to keep up. Also Hwmonitor is awesome.
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The1stCAV
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Re:HW Monitor - Believe or not to believe?
2012/08/02 07:34:44
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OK well so far one person says HW Monitor is awesome - so I take that as it being reliable. With that in mind I have decided to purchase a new PSU (wish EVGA had gotten theirs released sooner) - http://www.amazon.com/gp/...oh_details_o00_s00_i00 I figure this PSU with the new 30A NEMA L5-30P run I am putting in, along with the 2250W UPS I have dedicated to Frank alone, this should eliminate any potential power issues. Considering the motherboard, the PSU, the GPU's all have been changed out and OS reloaded a few times, at this point if this does not solve my issues it will have to be a driver issue I am facing. Would that be safe to assume?
Asus RE4 | Core i7 3930K | G.Skill 32GB Kit 9-10-9-28 | EVGA GTX 680 4GB x3 3-Way SLI | LEPA 1600W PSU | Corsair Force GT 120g x2 RAID 0 Programs | Patriot Pyro SE 120g x2 RAID 0 BOOT/OS | WD Caviar Black 1TB | WD Caviar Black 2TB SATA | Asus Phobeus Xonar Sound Card - Sill in progress of 2013 upgrade........ VANTAGE: TBD 3DMARK11: TBD Heatware: http://www.heatware.com/eval.php?id=63019
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Re:HW Monitor - Believe or not to believe?
2012/08/02 11:56:28
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The1stCAV
POPS AND CLICKS/USB POWER I would have random pops & clicks in the audio, coinciding with these pops and clicks would be USB power fluctuating. The lights on the keyboard would flicker. The mouse would stick and have to catch up, things would go from bad to worse then the game was unplayable.
You've probably been through all this with the EVGA techs already but have you tried the following: - In the BIOS under Voltage Control, increase the voltage to the Southbridge (labeled ICH VCore) to 1.125 volts (you could even try going a few notches higher) to see if that helps with the USB power fluctations
- In the BIOS under CPU features, change the CxE Function to C1 only and disable SpeedStep (In combination with the above, I'm trying to rule out bus issues, speedstep and lower CxE states shut down the bus to conserve power, not just the CPU cores)
- Make sure you have power plugged into the molex port on the motherboard located here:
Anyway, that's where I would start, and apologies if you've already done those things a number of times. My next steps after the above would be looking at Northbridge (IOH) and related voltages, HPET settings, and memory settings. P.S., as regards to Hardware monitor, I wouldn't rely on it or any other software monitoring utility very much. Your motherboard has voltage read points on it, I'd recommend using a multi-meter and measuiring the voltages there if possible.
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The1stCAV
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Re:HW Monitor - Believe or not to believe?
2012/08/02 14:14:26
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OK now we are getting somwhere - lol I appreciate the detailed reply and can say with confidence that I do in fact have that additional Molex power at the bottom of the board - that was done last year when I started troubleshooting this issue. I did take note of your suggested voltage and setting changes - I can honestly say it made a HUGE improvement, though we are still not entirely there yet. There were still those mouse freeze moments where the mouse would "stick" then catch up. The poping and clicking is all but gone. Here are the current BIOS settings - can we tweak it more to see if we can get it working solid?
Asus RE4 | Core i7 3930K | G.Skill 32GB Kit 9-10-9-28 | EVGA GTX 680 4GB x3 3-Way SLI | LEPA 1600W PSU | Corsair Force GT 120g x2 RAID 0 Programs | Patriot Pyro SE 120g x2 RAID 0 BOOT/OS | WD Caviar Black 1TB | WD Caviar Black 2TB SATA | Asus Phobeus Xonar Sound Card - Sill in progress of 2013 upgrade........ VANTAGE: TBD 3DMARK11: TBD Heatware: http://www.heatware.com/eval.php?id=63019
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Re:HW Monitor - Believe or not to believe?
2012/08/02 14:58:04
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I'm glad to hear the popping and clicking is gone! Are the keyboard LEDs still flickering? The voltages you're showing look fine to me - or at least I don't see anything that would cause the type of behavior your speaking of. Now to figure out the source of the mouse freezing and catching up. We need to isolate whether it's a hardware or software issue. Does this behavior occur in all apps, or just certain types of apps? I'm trying to narrow it down to see if, for example, maybe it's just games that use a certain engine. That mouse freezing could be due to an 32-bit app that's getting close to the 2GB virtual memory limit, for example. Or it could be one of those apps that unfortunately works worse with SLI enabled (Team Fortress 2 is an example of a game that plays smoother without SLI) The other thought that's coming to mind is looking at your Mods Rigs page (nice setup, by the way), is that you may be running a USB hub or a really long USB extension cable from your box to your desk... although I'm guessing you may have already tried plugging your mouse directly into the rear motherboard USB port. Oh, wait, I just had another thought... I see you have SSDs, which can often have 'stuttering' problems. In fact I'm willing to bet that's probably the issue right there. The problem of course is solving it in a way that would work out best for you (I see you have two different RAID setups with them). Visiting the OCZ forum at http://www.ocztechnologyforum.com I see a number of complaints of this behavior. The most common solution seems to be switching the drives over to the intel controller on the motherboard (the black SATA ports) in AHCI mode, updating the drives firmware, and trying newer versions of Intel's drivers. But before we have you go downloading stuff, first check your Windows Power Saving features, and see if it's set to turn off the Hard Drives after a certain period of time (Power Options, advanced setting, hard disk section). EDIT: set it to High performance and tell it to never turn off the hard drives. Then report back with info on which controller your SSDs are connected too and which drivers you're using.
post edited by Davabled - 2012/08/02 15:10:29
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shaxx78
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Re:HW Monitor - Believe or not to believe?
2012/08/02 15:01:55
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Have you tried running everything at stock clocks. If you are just jumping from one issue to another the problem may lie with something simple.
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HeavyHemi
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Re:HW Monitor - Believe or not to believe?
2012/08/02 15:24:46
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If you suspect your voltages are an issue, you need to use a DVM. All software monitoring tools for voltage are inaccurate as they are only reporting what the onboard sensors are telling it. They are not a substitute for actual measurement. If you must place some validity in HW monitor, your 11.37v on the 12V, is out of the ATX specification of +- 5% voltage regulation on the 12v rail.
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The1stCAV
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Re:HW Monitor - Believe or not to believe?
2012/08/02 16:01:51
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Davabled I'm glad to hear the popping and clicking is gone! Are the keyboard LEDs still flickering? The voltages you're showing look fine to me - or at least I don't see anything that would cause the type of behavior your speaking of. Good to know, ty Davabled Does this behavior occur in all apps, or just certain types of apps? I'm trying to narrow it down to see if, for example, maybe it's just games that use a certain engine. COD - all, Crysis 1/1.5/2, Far Cry 2, Rage, etc Davabled The other thought that's coming to mind is looking at your Mods Rigs page (nice setup, by the way), is that you may be running a USB hub or a really long USB extension cable from your box to your desk... although I'm guessing you may have already tried plugging your mouse directly into the rear motherboard USB port. TY, Yes with powered hubs at the desk. I have also plugged them directly in the front and back ports as well as the riser card with the same results. Currently the mouse and keyboard are on two different powered USB hubs that have the extensions to the back of Frank Davabled Oh, wait, I just had another thought... I see you have SSDs, which can often have 'stuttering' problems. In fact I'm willing to bet that's probably the issue right there. The problem of course is solving it in a way that would work out best for you (I see you have two different RAID setups with them). Visiting the OCZ forum at http://www.ocztechnologyforum.com I see a number of complaints of this behavior. The most common solution seems to be switching the drives over to the intel controller on the motherboard (the black SATA ports) in AHCI mode, updating the drives firmware, and trying newer versions of Intel's drivers. Currently running four OCZ Vertex 2 60GB SSD in RAID 0 on the LSi RAID card in PCIEx16 slot 4 - I had them in RAID 1/0 on the onboard Intel connectors.
Asus RE4 | Core i7 3930K | G.Skill 32GB Kit 9-10-9-28 | EVGA GTX 680 4GB x3 3-Way SLI | LEPA 1600W PSU | Corsair Force GT 120g x2 RAID 0 Programs | Patriot Pyro SE 120g x2 RAID 0 BOOT/OS | WD Caviar Black 1TB | WD Caviar Black 2TB SATA | Asus Phobeus Xonar Sound Card - Sill in progress of 2013 upgrade........ VANTAGE: TBD 3DMARK11: TBD Heatware: http://www.heatware.com/eval.php?id=63019
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Re:HW Monitor - Believe or not to believe?
2012/08/02 16:24:51
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Just to clarify, do the problems with the mouse freezing still go away if you drop down to 2-way SLI (or disable SLI)?
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Arctucas
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Re:HW Monitor - Believe or not to believe?
2012/08/02 16:31:49
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In my opinion HW Monitor is OK, but if you want the best monitoring application, bar none, buy a license for AIDA64.
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The1stCAV
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Re:HW Monitor - Believe or not to believe?
2012/08/03 06:56:58
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shaxx78 Have you tried running everything at stock clocks. If you are just jumping from one issue to another the problem may lie with something simple.
Yes I have gone to stock speeds MANY times. Currently the OC is very mild for this 990X, but I agree if all else fails, go to stock and work from there. The thing is I have done this many times, but good solid advice. Davabled Just to clarify, do the problems with the mouse freezing still go away if you drop down to 2-way SLI (or disable SLI)?
OK it seems that in the "lobby" of the games is where I get that "sticky" moment with the mouse in 3-WAY SLI. So far this seems to be the case in MW3 Multiplayer, RAGE Campaign, and Crysis 2. However in game I rarely ever find a time where the mouse feels like it "froze" for any period of time, even those micro freezes it used to do. So I think we are getting close in 3-WAY SLI to getting it to be where it should be. 2-WAY SLI has no issues at the moment. 3-WAY SLI now pushes the UPS at times, I see/hear it kicking in (its so much louder than anything else in this office when it kicks in) and compensating power from 105V to 109V as it keeps power solid to Frank. So I can tell when the GPU's are now stressing based on the load it puts on the UPS. However so far we seem to be nailing down the issues. Any additional suggestions on the mouse freeze? I just ordered two Corsair Force 3 GT 120GB SSD's. I will put them on the red SATA III ports on the MB, remove the LSi RAID card and the four 60GB OCZ Vertex 2's and see if this makes a difference. I may do that update to the Vertex Drives and drop two back in for Programs duty. The SSD's will be here next week, so I should know next weekend if this fixes the situation. With the new 1600W PSU and a dedicated 30A NEMA L5-30P plug/run installed and these SSD's, Frank should have no more issues or things to cause him issues.
Asus RE4 | Core i7 3930K | G.Skill 32GB Kit 9-10-9-28 | EVGA GTX 680 4GB x3 3-Way SLI | LEPA 1600W PSU | Corsair Force GT 120g x2 RAID 0 Programs | Patriot Pyro SE 120g x2 RAID 0 BOOT/OS | WD Caviar Black 1TB | WD Caviar Black 2TB SATA | Asus Phobeus Xonar Sound Card - Sill in progress of 2013 upgrade........ VANTAGE: TBD 3DMARK11: TBD Heatware: http://www.heatware.com/eval.php?id=63019
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Re:HW Monitor - Believe or not to believe?
2012/08/03 12:08:54
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Thanks for the further clarification The1stCAV. Here is my speculation: I think what might be happening is that in the game lobbies, the lighter GPU and CPU complexity allows those 3 video cards to pump out the frames like crazy. The simpler scenes in the lobby could cause the video cards to work harder. Now, add in the extra thermal and power controls added to the GTX 580 line to prevent damage to video card. Those thermal and power protections are probably kicking on and off, causing performance to stutter up and down. ( edit:it's often in game lobbies that graphics cards over the years have started litteraly squealing, because they were pushing those simple scenes out so fast, and then quiet down a bit when the game gets more complicated) Then, when you get into the game, you no longer see the lag, because now, even though the graphics are more complicated and should stress the GPUs more, they are also spending more time waiting for the game engine to finish its tasks on the CPU. The result being that the video cards get just enough of a breather every few microseconds to not trigger the video cards thermal/power throttling. Just some speculation for what it's worth. Anyway, with that info I took another look at your BIOS screen shots, and thought you might want to try out changing the settings below and see if it makes things worse or better. IOH VCore: increase to 1.225 volts (this is the Northbridge chip, which handles the PCI express lanes for at least 2 of your video cards and your RAID card. Increasing voltage here might help stabilize things, but you'll have to keep an eye on heat, those northbridge chips get pretty darn hot. Too much voltage could make things worse too, so you can play around with it a bit) Test that adjustment out first, then try tweaking these: IOH PLL VCore: decrease to 1.65 volts CPU PLL VCore: decrease to 1.65 volts The PLL voltages above refer to Phased Lock Loops, they are little feedback circuits that try to keep the signals going between the CPU and Chipset in synch with each other. Lowering the voltages to these changes the level at which the PLL modifies the signal. It's hard to say whether these values would be better for your setup or not, you'll just have to test them out and see for yourself.
post edited by Davabled - 2012/08/03 12:11:32
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The1stCAV
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Re:HW Monitor - Believe or not to believe?
2012/08/20 14:25:25
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OK, I took a step back and waited to see if a new OS load would make a difference with all these changes. So I waited for my two Corsair FORCE GT 120GB SATA III SSD's to arrive. Also, not sure if I had it above, but I also got in the LEPA 1600W PSU that I used. I sure wish Frank’s sewn cables would have worked with this PSU, but unfortunately I had to go back to factory cables. For the purpose of troubleshooting, this was a good thing anyway, it just eliminated those cables as potential fault points.
I then used the jumpers on the MB to take out the LSi RAID card in the last PCIe x16 slot. This meant I had four OCZ VERTEX 2 64GB SSD’s that needed to go somewhere, which I placed them on the Intel RAID controller in a RAID for Programs. I then used the Marvell SATA III ports for the FORCE GT’s and put them in RAID as well.
I loaded Windows 7 Ultimate 64 again – loaded all new drivers, everything was loaded new on a fresh OS. I tried to play MW3 and had the exact same issues as I started with, in game or in menu in game, did not matter. However Crysis 2, BF3, and other games seemed to not really be an issue. RAGE did have at times some weird micro stutter from the mouse but not to the point I was getting pissed or killed or anything. However the problem is I am addicted to MW3 and that is what I wanted to play and could not.
So what else? Sound & Audio go hand in hand, maybe, just maybe I have a sound card or sound drivers causing the issue. I know I have read over the years the various people that have had some really weird and frustrating problems only to find that it was the Creative Drivers. Considering the drivers for my XFi Titanium has not been updated in about 2 years, I would be justified I think in saying it was them, but still I do not know.
I went about researching a new sound card. I finally found one I wanted, thought it was PCIe x16 compatible – I was wrong, it was simply a PCI sound card and would not work where the LSi RAID card was. This meant I needed to free up the one PCI slot I had on this motherboard. The thing was there was already a card in there using that slot – a USB 3.0 riser card I had my front panel ports jacked into as they were blue tipped USB cables and needed to be plugged into a USB jack, not a header. This is where I wonder the problems could have been and I didn’t even think to look here.
Either way, at this point I had the GPU loop drained, the sound card was going in. So out the USB card went, in went the new sound card (HT|OMEGA Claro Halo series). This sound card by the way is AMAZING!
So I fired up Windows (once I got all the BIOS things sorted out) and began testing. Whatever it was it isn’t any more. I was able to get into MW3 with no issues, no stutter, no USB power issues, nothing. Running BF3 @ 65+ FPS at 6000x1080 and all eye candy and no stutters. Same goes for all games now, MW3 runs 95+ FPS smooth as it should. Whether it was the USB card I took out, the XFi card, the XFi Drivers, or what I do not know – all I know is that this particular configuration with the new 1600W PSU and all it works!
So thank you for your assistance – I think the problem is finally resolved.
Asus RE4 | Core i7 3930K | G.Skill 32GB Kit 9-10-9-28 | EVGA GTX 680 4GB x3 3-Way SLI | LEPA 1600W PSU | Corsair Force GT 120g x2 RAID 0 Programs | Patriot Pyro SE 120g x2 RAID 0 BOOT/OS | WD Caviar Black 1TB | WD Caviar Black 2TB SATA | Asus Phobeus Xonar Sound Card - Sill in progress of 2013 upgrade........ VANTAGE: TBD 3DMARK11: TBD Heatware: http://www.heatware.com/eval.php?id=63019
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Re:HW Monitor - Believe or not to believe?
2012/08/20 15:47:46
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Thanks for replying back with your experiences and resolution. I think it's possible that it could have been the USB card in that slot; last year I worked with someone who had a USB controller on an X58 board that was solved by moving the card to the slot that was fed by the CPU as opposed to being fed by the northbridge (some of those cards a very picky about signaling). In any case, congratulations on getting everything working! You went through a lot of headache and hardware, hope you continue to get a lot of enjoyment our of your re-build!
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shaxx78
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Re:HW Monitor - Believe or not to believe?
2012/08/26 17:28:08
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Something simple it was. Good to see you are up and running.
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