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Helpful ReplyFolding@home Core 17 Update video

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Xavier Zepherious
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Re:Folding@home Core 17 Update video 2013/05/07 20:23:37 (permalink)
be a good idea to use smp-8 rather than smp-9
odd numbers of cores has a tendency to crash on some SMP WU's


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ramcharger89
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Re:Folding@home Core 17 Update video 2013/05/07 20:48:52 (permalink)
I have 2 GTX 460's running getting about 13,000 ppd per gpu with the new wu 7663.
Which is about 2000 points less per GPU running non beta wu's.

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cokeman54
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Re:Folding@home Core 17 Update video 2013/05/07 21:10:05 (permalink)
ramcharger89

I have 2 GTX 460's running getting about 13,000 ppd per gpu with the new wu 7663.
Which is about 2000 points less per GPU running non beta wu's.


Fermis did not fare well on this core. Kepler got a big boost. I took my 550ti back to non beta and kept the 590 on beta for a modest increase in points. Much less than what I was expecting. Next move is a better driver from Nvidia to keep fermis in the game. They are power hungry and points per watt is much better on kepler.


 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
#93
bowlinra
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Re:Folding@home Core 17 Update video 2013/05/07 21:19:15 (permalink)
ramcharger89
I have 2 GTX 460's running getting about 13,000 ppd per gpu with the new wu 7663.
Which is about 2000 points less per GPU running non beta wu's.


Well 13K PPD is double what I'm seeing. How is are the GTX 470 doing?

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Re:Folding@home Core 17 Update video 2013/05/07 21:53:47 (permalink)
I'll try SMP-8 and see how that goes Xavier, so far 9 hasn't been giving me problems.. I skimmed the folding forum and read something about using SMP 9 if 10 wasn't helping when folding SMP+The GPUs, but reading while tired is never a good thing :p.




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TheWolf
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Re:Folding@home Core 17 Update video 2013/05/07 21:58:01 (permalink)
Anyone able to get Zeta to run in Linux yet?
I played around with it all afternoon without much luck.
I think there's a  problem with v7 software install. Once it
came up with the config screen but wouldn't start, hangs on connecting.
Can no longer get to the config screen or manual
start like it once tried to with a old v7 install 7.2.9. I got closer to
setup with 7.2.9 than the 7.3 version.
post edited by TheWolf - 2013/05/07 21:59:12

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TheWolf
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Re:Folding@home Core 17 Update video 2013/05/07 22:14:14 (permalink)
Never mind, I got it working, working my 1st 7663 on the 660ti FTW in Linux!.

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Xavier Zepherious
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Re:Folding@home Core 17 Update video 2013/05/07 22:42:04 (permalink)
when you get results post the PPD improvement of using linux over Win7
 
I'll probably switch over for the gain
post edited by Xavier Zepherious - 2013/05/07 22:43:08


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codebluetoo
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Re:Folding@home Core 17 Update video 2013/05/07 22:49:35 (permalink)
Switched 2 680s and 1 660 ti...
 
I feel a smile creeping in...


 
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TheWolf
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Re:Folding@home Core 17 Update video 2013/05/07 23:35:37 (permalink)
Xavier Zepherious

when you get results post the PPD improvement of using linux over Win7

I'll probably switch over for the gain


Its been a while since I ran the 660 in W7, not sure I still have any stats.
In Linux Mint14 TPF 2:04 PPD 60K GPU folding only.
I need to find a way to lock cores in Linux with this bigadv+GPU rig.
Other wise looks like it will be a fight for core usage and both may suffer.

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jinihammerer
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Re:Folding@home Core 17 Update video 2013/05/08 00:55:52 (permalink)
Looks to me like OCing to shave seconds off will make a major difference in QRB, i'd be interested to see the effects on larger WU's 
 
 
for example AB's 680's are
TPF 1.48 = 73165 PPD
my 690 are folding each GPU
TPF 1.41 = 79137 PPD
 
But as a side note. The base points are much lower. so if you are not folding 24/7 on your GPU and you pause one to go to work.  The points on the paused unit are going to be less then the old GPU WU by a lot.
 
This WILL be an issue because people will tend to want to cancel the partially done job for the much larger point return on a non paused job.  Just saying.
post edited by jinihammerer - 2013/05/08 01:00:07


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Re:Folding@home Core 17 Update video 2013/05/08 01:10:08 (permalink)

 


 
jinihammerer
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Re:Folding@home Core 17 Update video 2013/05/08 01:20:01 (permalink)
To clarify a little about the QRB i see that is going to be an issue and its something someone should relay to the beta team.
 
 
The current 3 hour WU's have a base pay out around 4k per WU with no QRB.. I can pause the WU. go to work come home fire it back up finish the WU still get my 4 k for the WU.
 
The Beta WU's have a much lower base of 1600. at TPF 1.41 =  it will pay out well over 9k per WU. Cool right?
 
But if i get 2.5 hours into the beta WU. pause it to work. When I come home from work and restart it. I will get less then 3 k for the WU if its almost done.
 if you are just in the very beginning say only 5 or 10% into the WU the payout tends to be less then 2 k. People are going to just cancel it out and get a new one. 
 
The QRB is pretty dramatic by shaving seconds but if you pause to game its going to be a major hit thats going to end up with lots of aborted WU's.
 
for example AB's 680's are 
TPF 1.48 = 73165 PPD 
my 690 are folding each GPU 
TPF 1.41 = 79137 PPD 
harrier just posted his 660 TI
TPF 1.59 = 62783 PPD
 
all great numbers if your never going to use your PC.
 
 
 
 
post edited by jinihammerer - 2013/05/08 01:21:52


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Xavier Zepherious
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Re:Folding@home Core 17 Update video 2013/05/08 01:57:31 (permalink)
Id suggest to people to schedule their WU's to stop just before they go to work then or leave them running
they are only 3hr Wu's at the moment... so get up early and one unit  ...finish them out
or just pause and eat the points - you will still get base points of 1700
4k (most GPU WU's) vs 2k...not that much loss (at base value)
 
compared to 762x's 14k vs 2k

 
it's only going to get worse once biggpuadv comes in (check proteneer post on reddit)
http://www.reddit.com/r/Folding/comments/1dsylw/i_am_yutong_zhao_iama_gpu_core_developer_at/c9tmrs2
WU's that take days to complete for serious points


post edited by Xavier Zepherious - 2013/05/08 02:02:46


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jinihammerer
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Re:Folding@home Core 17 Update video 2013/05/08 02:18:21 (permalink)
big GPU is going to be different that's a flag you set. I am looking at the general public user that's on a gaming box or have any plans at all to use the machine for other then folding.
 
The loss is more along the lines of 9 k for 3 hours or 2 k for 3 hours if you pause for work. its not a minor deviation over an 10 hour period.
 
If you make it too much a loss or a deterrent to actually use your own machine people will either A) not bother or B) abort low paying WU's.  its something they really need to take into concideration. saying wake early and pause it is fine but its not always going to happen.
 
BigAdvs is different in that you know your dedicating it to fold.
 
 
Here is another example of how quickly the QRB degrades on the smaller WU's. I understand its beta that's why i am trying to give feedback.
 
When i posted around an hour and a half ago, i had paused one of my GPU's on my 690's so i can use my PC. its value has dropped by 3,000 points in an hour and a half. That much point degrading over such a short period of time, people will be dumping WU's. I can see this coming from a mile away.
post edited by jinihammerer - 2013/05/08 02:53:14


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Xavier Zepherious
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Re:Folding@home Core 17 Update video 2013/05/08 02:53:23 (permalink)
the is another option of just folding for the night 2 WU's ,,,after you get back from work and before sleep (finishing them off before you go to sleep)
 
the fact is there are other options
if you don't want to fold 24/7 then you can plan how you wish to do it

The QRB also gives some incentive for more people to fold 24/7
more points if I do longer WU's and keep it running more
 
Yes I know point drop off occurs quickly... ..
I have a tendency to complete my WU's rather than pause them just for that reason
Pausing should only be used in cases where GPU resources are critical (you need one or more for something else)
or you do not wish to leave a computer unattended.
 
the message all teams should get out is don't Drop Wu's unless you have to
dropping Wu's intentionally to get high value WU's is just wrong (and can be addressed by the 80% complete rule - drop to many you lose your bonus)
one here or there I don't think they care about too much..if you wish to leave or shut down a computer
 
 
post edited by Xavier Zepherious - 2013/05/08 03:03:55


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Re:Folding@home Core 17 Update video 2013/05/08 03:02:59 (permalink)
That's were the finish comes in handy, if you think your going to use the PC always set it to finish once it starts a WU.
That way you  know in 3 hours its done and doesn't pick up another WU. Then you game get ready for bed hit fold.
You sleep 8 hours worked 2+ WU hit finish and it finished before you hit the door to go to work, shut down PC wave bye bye cya when I get home.
post edited by TheWolf - 2013/05/08 03:05:58

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jinihammerer
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Re:Folding@home Core 17 Update video 2013/05/08 03:07:19 (permalink)
I understand whats your saying, but i am a realist and just stating what's going to happen. 
 If you could schedule your work load so that it would automatically not accept work that would  take you past a certain time. That would change the conditions.
 
That's not an option at this point so the reality is you cant schedule your work load.
 
You may get up and have a job that just started and will end 10 min after you have to be out the door or one that needs 2 more hours after you get home.
 
Either way its 9 k turned to 2k.
You don't think people will abort  a job that has 2 hours and 45 min left with a 2 k payout  so they can get a new WU that will pay 9k for the same time? 
 
I think they will with out hesitation.


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Xavier Zepherious
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Re:Folding@home Core 17 Update video 2013/05/08 03:13:43 (permalink)
then post it at Folding forums for V7 suggestions
(all honesty it's a great idea Jini)
  
cutoff time for getting last WU (scheduled Assignment)
 
let say start my computer (when I get home like 5pm) it starts with pickup of new WUs - it scheduled to stop picking them up at 4 or 5am ...3 hrs before I get up in the morning that way they all finish before I get up and you can turn it off before you leave
 
 
post edited by Xavier Zepherious - 2013/05/08 03:21:18


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TheWolf
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Re:Folding@home Core 17 Update video 2013/05/08 03:14:08 (permalink)
They say there's a way to use windows scheduler so I've read but never tried it since I'm a 24/7 folder.
If I already have time invested in a WU no matter the loss in PPD I'm going to finish it.
I'm sure not everyone would but lets hope they remember its about the science not the PPD
post edited by TheWolf - 2013/05/08 03:16:19

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jinihammerer
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Re:Folding@home Core 17 Update video 2013/05/08 03:25:40 (permalink)
I know gamers. 
They will take more over less... every time. most people with high end GPU's  are your gamer's that's the market.
 
Windows scheduler can start and stop the F@H but its not going to do it logically. it will start and stop it when you tell it too. it will not care where a WU is when it does.
 
What I am saying is a little more complex.
 
If a WU will take you past 5 am, it is returned to the queue for reissue kinda logic. That way its not harming the project and not inconveniencing the folder. But that only solves one issue of being able to limit your folding day to a set time with out trashing the QRB.
 
The other is that when you install F@H as a non dedicated folder it pauses GPU folding AFTER it pulls a WU. So the times ticking right away.. It may be a good idea to make QRB a flag you set on or off for those WU's keeping static point WU's separate. that would be a solution for gamers and worker bee PC's


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Xavier Zepherious
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Re:Folding@home Core 17 Update video 2013/05/08 03:49:17 (permalink)
what Im suggesting is to not get any more wu's after a specific time
 
add a Scheduler in V7
 
if the QRB units take 5 hrs schedule you last possible pickup a 3am- 5 hrs before you get up (it sets all Wu's to finish in the client by schedule)
then they are all finished before you get up - and it won't fetch anymore (because finishing bars it from getting anymore - ie one unit the gpu's)
 
if Stanford can put in schedule folding as a possible enhancement to the client this would alleviate most part-time folders
  this won't however fix users that need to step out for a few mins or go shopping after starting a new session
 
suggesting a new flag LIKE -nogpuqrb is also another good idea
 
however We don't know the direction of stanford and a standard GPU WU's could be a thing of the past after all the old GPU WU's run their course (All WU's might become QRB)
 
 
post edited by Xavier Zepherious - 2013/05/08 03:58:07


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TheWolf
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Re:Folding@home Core 17 Update video 2013/05/08 04:45:05 (permalink)
I wish they add a flag like -twounit and -threeunit and so on with summer coming on I can fold my GPU's at night with a 3hrs WU I could set -threeunits and it wouldn't pickup another after the 3rd.
That way I could start around 8:30 9pm and it do 3 WU by 6am and have it pause or shut down.
A client #finished WU shut down addition would also be a nice feather. Were it would shut down the PC completely
after x# are worked.
post edited by TheWolf - 2013/05/08 04:50:14

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Re:Folding@home Core 17 Update video 2013/05/08 05:03:02 (permalink)
Yep, many times I'm in the situation where I have to stop Folding at a particular time.  Because WUs often finish in the "wee hours of the morn", I'm not awake to set a "-oneunit" or to set V7 to "Finish".  The result is a WU that starts, has to be suspended and then picked up later (generally 8-10hrs).  It kills the points, but the WU eventually gets done.  Based on what I understand about how PG deals with WUs and the months it can take before they get through them, I expect that my individual little 8-10hr delay is not of much consequence.  Multiply that by all the Users that Fold and maybe it is something worth looking into by PG.
 
I'd love to have the ability to set a pause or finish after "x" WUs and I expect there are others too that would use a feature like that. 



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Re:Folding@home Core 17 Update video 2013/05/08 05:47:08 (permalink)
bowlinra

ramcharger89
I have 2 GTX 460's running getting about 13,000 ppd per gpu with the new wu 7663.
Which is about 2000 points less per GPU running non beta wu's.


Well 13K PPD is double what I'm seeing. How is are the GTX 470 doing?


The 470's are getting just over 30,250 ppd.

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Re:Folding@home Core 17 Update video 2013/05/08 07:30:35 (permalink) ☄ Helpful
Hi Guys,
 
Please note that while there is a request for adding a scheduler in V7 (ticket #300 which I created, can't post link yet), for now you can use this lesser-known-feature:
 
<max-units v='0'/>
 
This can be set as a per slot basis and the default of 0 means that it will continue to download and process WUs until the donor stops. However, you can set it to 1, 2, 3, etc and that will tell the slot to stop after 1, 2 3, WUs automatically.
 
That's the theory about this feature and hopefully, it works as such. I haven't yet tried it so if you fellows do try it and it works, would be nice to that :)
 
BTW, not sure if this is a feature or bug, I typed in Quick Reply and hit "Open Full Version" but my message didn't appear. I quit the Full Version and my message was still in the Quick Reply. Using Cyberfox 20.0.1, a 64-bit variant of Firfox.

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Re:Folding@home Core 17 Update video 2013/05/08 08:41:12 (permalink)
Excellent information Panther-X (Blue Ribboinish type of help IMO)!  I will give your settings info a try and would be happy to report back to you.  Where would you prefer that we provide you that feedback?  I'm a member of the FAH Forum too, so I can PM you or add a thread over there (whatever way you would prefer).
 
Thanks for this reply and for visiting with us today! 



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Re:Folding@home Core 17 Update video 2013/05/08 09:18:17 (permalink)
Your welcome! Glad that I could help out :)
 
You can post it either here or a PM at FoldingForum, which ever is more convenient for you.

TheWolf
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Re:Folding@home Core 17 Update video 2013/05/08 09:20:36 (permalink)
Thanks for the tip! I'm set and testing as I type.
Name: max-units
Value: v='2'
Edit: hope that's correct, this is what's shown in log <max-units v='v=&apos;2&apos;'/> the command did.
Sad part is it picked up a 5hrs unit so it'll be 10hrs or so before I'll know if it worked..
post edited by TheWolf - 2013/05/08 09:33:15

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Panther-X
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Re:Folding@home Core 17 Update video 2013/05/08 13:47:59 (permalink)
TheWolf

Thanks for the tip! I'm set and testing as I type.
Name: max-units
Value: v='2'
Edit: hope that's correct, this is what's shown in log <max-units v='v=&apos;2&apos;'/> the command did.
Sad part is it picked up a 5hrs unit so it'll be 10hrs or so before I'll know if it worked..

Humm... I believe that what should show up in the log file is this:
<max-units v='1'/>
 
I will see if I can test it on my system and report back.

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