Hot!Flaws in evga design and poor quality control, home made fix.

Page: < 123 > Showing page 2 of 3
Author
acxcoolerssuck
Superclocked Member
  • Total Posts : 152
  • Reward points : 0
  • Joined: 2016/07/01 06:27:49
  • Status: online
  • Ribbons : 0
Re: Flaws in evga design and poor quality control, home made fix. 2016/11/03 21:43:37 (permalink)
you better go for 2mm if the stock vrm pad is 1.5mm.
even 2.5mm is good if you want the vrm to be perfectly contacted with the pads.
you can place the stock pad to the top of the caps so the cooling plate can spread the heat from those caps
 
#31
acxcoolerssuck
Superclocked Member
  • Total Posts : 152
  • Reward points : 0
  • Joined: 2016/07/01 06:27:49
  • Status: online
  • Ribbons : 0
Re: Flaws in evga design and poor quality control, home made fix. 2016/11/03 21:53:31 (permalink)
EVGATech_ChrisB
Hi Everyone,
 
Please keep in mind that we do not recommend any gaps in thermal pads and we do not expect any of our customers to buy thermal pads.  We are supplying our Optional Thermal Mod for Free and if you do not want to install it or you have any concern with your product then we are here to help with warranty, all shipping paid.
 
I assure everyone that we are 100% Quality Checking all EVGA GTX 10 series ACX 3.0 cards models 1060/1070/1080 to ensure that they are fully updated with both the latest BIOS and the Optional Thermal Pad Mod to assist our customers.  Rest assured that if you do not prefer to install the Optional Thermal mod or the Recommended VBIOS yourself, or have any concerns with your product, then we are here to help with a replacement product that is updated.
 
Please do not hesitate to contact us if any questions or concerns that we can assist with.  http://www.evga.com/about/contactus/ 
 
Thermal Pad Mod Request Website/Response:  http://www.evga.com/thermalmod/ 
 
Recommended VBIOS Updates: http://forums.evga.com/Update-11316-with-NEW-BIOS-EVGA-GeForce-GTX-10801070-PWM-Operating-Temperature-Update-m2573491.aspx 
 
 


so why there are gaps? 
we are not intended to replace the stock pads, we have no choice but have to change them. 
again, we are not talking about those additional pads on top of the cooling plate. we are talking about the stock pads under the cooling plate.
seems you guys still dont give a care about this problem until now. the founder of this problem first reported in this official fourms a week ago in the 1070 bad layout thread. and more and more users report the same problem not just here but reddit and other forums. i dont care we are majority or not, this problem is totally unacceptable in nature.
post edited by acxcoolerssuck - 2016/11/03 22:01:20
#32
Legacy-ZA
New Member
  • Total Posts : 33
  • Reward points : 0
  • Joined: 2016/08/22 11:27:11
  • Status: offline
  • Ribbons : 0
Re: Flaws in evga design and poor quality control, home made fix. 2016/11/04 00:23:28 (permalink)
Oh great, I just logged on and saw this thread. I requested my thermal mod, but it looks like I might need more thermal pads if my VRAM is exposed... I hope you guys are going to send some extra thermal pads with the thermal "mod"... just to be sure.
#33
Ugugu
New Member
  • Total Posts : 35
  • Reward points : 0
  • Joined: 2016/09/15 15:16:27
  • Status: offline
  • Ribbons : 0
Re: Flaws in evga design and poor quality control, home made fix. 2016/11/04 02:48:05 (permalink)
whitezero
Ugugu
stock evga vram pads are 1mm thick and dimensions are 1.2mm X 1.4mm)

 
This is a typo, right? No way the width and length are that small for the VRAM. You meant 1.2in x 1.4in? Or really, I'm thinking they are closer to 11x12mm?
 
I was looking to maybe get some Thermal Grizzly Minus pads to put on my VRAM after I get EVGA's pads for the VRM. They've got a 120x20x1.5mm pad and wondering if that'll be big enough to get all 8 VRAM chips covered or will I need more?


well do the math, you need 8x pads to cover Vrams (1.5mm thickness), dimensions for Vram pad is, and I will repeat again, since people dont bother to read, what I wrote previously, Vram dimensions for 1 chip is 1.4cm X 1.2cm (14mm X 12mm) and thickness is 1.5mm and yes  if you buy 120x20x1.5mm pad should be plenty to cover all eight chips
#34
Stoltzman1972
New Member
  • Total Posts : 10
  • Reward points : 0
  • Joined: 2016/09/05 12:29:44
  • Status: offline
  • Ribbons : 0
Re: Flaws in evga design and poor quality control, home made fix. 2016/11/04 03:24:00 (permalink)
For some reason i cant see any of OP pictures, but i guess i could buy 145x145x1.5 arctic cooling pad and cut it to shape and cover everything..
Will definitely check my card layout.
#35
AngryAce
ACX Member
  • Total Posts : 341
  • Reward points : 0
  • Joined: 2010/03/27 20:40:35
  • Location: Nebraska
  • Status: offline
  • Ribbons : 0
Re: Flaws in evga design and poor quality control, home made fix. 2016/11/04 03:27:06 (permalink)
Legacy-ZA
Oh great, I just logged on and saw this thread. I requested my thermal mod, but it looks like I might need more thermal pads if my VRAM is exposed... I hope you guys are going to send some extra thermal pads with the thermal "mod"... just to be sure.


It's just a few people whining.... I bought both my cards in July and they both came from the supposed "bad" factory 25 and in the serial number range that I am supposed to have this BS/100% fan issue and I don't have it. Next, my cards are supposed too explode and burn themselves up from overheating VRMS and after running Furmark for 12-hours, they are unfazed. Now, my vram is at risk from gaps in the thermal pads and base plate which in my case, there are none.....
 
EVGA has already said they would RMA cards if customers were uncomfortable in adding pads or the updating bios themselves and pay for the shipping. On the flip side, I would not want to send something I just paid $679 for and get a refurb card back. I think I prefer they apply the fixes to my card and return it if I were to send it in.


#36
PeterFreeman
New Member
  • Total Posts : 11
  • Reward points : 0
  • Joined: 2016/08/26 10:09:31
  • Status: offline
  • Ribbons : 0
Re: Flaws in evga design and poor quality control, home made fix. 2016/11/04 03:56:33 (permalink)
It's a bit of a pain indeed, but lets be fair to EVGA, they are offering to RMA cards and have their Tech's fix it if you feel uncomfortable applying the fix yourself, and the card is under warranty so even if you chose to do the thermal pads yourself and botched it, they are still obligated to fix it.
 
It's not like it has been brushed under the carpet either, there are replies from EVGA reps in threads, it would be great if they could put out an official statement in regards to the vram though and I am sure they will if its not just a few isolated cases. I would hope, for anyone who has a card where the thermal pads are not connecting to the vram that EVGA would offer to give additional pads for those.
 
The only real issue I see is the affect on the re-sale of the card, and for something that costs 700 euro it's very frustrating.
post edited by PeterFreeman - 2016/11/04 04:13:57
#37
Sir Petus
New Member
  • Total Posts : 22
  • Reward points : 0
  • Joined: 2016/10/22 05:26:47
  • Status: offline
  • Ribbons : 0
Re: Flaws in evga design and poor quality control, home made fix. 2016/11/04 04:07:18 (permalink)
at least in the EU they arent willing to RMA the card
#38
acxcoolerssuck
Superclocked Member
  • Total Posts : 152
  • Reward points : 0
  • Joined: 2016/07/01 06:27:49
  • Status: online
  • Ribbons : 0
Re: Flaws in evga design and poor quality control, home made fix. 2016/11/04 04:14:29 (permalink)
PeterFreeman
It's a bit of a pain indeed, but lets be fair to EVGA, they are offering to RMA cards and have their Tech's fix it if you feel uncomfortable applying the fix yourself, and the card is under warranty so even if you chose to do the thermal pads yourself and botched it, they are still obligated to fix it.
 
It's not like it has been brushed under the carpet either, there are replies from EVGA reps in threads, it would be great if they could put out an official statement in regards to the vrms though and I am sure they will if its not just a few isolated cases. I would hope, for anyone who has a card where the thermal pads are not connecting to the vrms that EVGA would offer to give additional pads for those.
 
The only real issue I see is the affect on the re-sale of the card, and for something that costs 700 euro it's very frustrating.


evga still does not make any statement to this problem at this moment. 
of course we are whining because we are hurt by evga. 
 
 
it is more like the micron issue at the beginning. when some users pointed out the micron vrams have got problems, another one who have no problem with micron vram said micron vrams are fine. and tried to blame the problem to the victims.
 
 
post edited by acxcoolerssuck - 2016/11/04 04:17:23
#39
whitezero
New Member
  • Total Posts : 33
  • Reward points : 0
  • Joined: 2008/01/31 22:04:35
  • Status: offline
  • Ribbons : 0
Re: Flaws in evga design and poor quality control, home made fix. 2016/11/04 05:10:20 (permalink)
Ugugu
whitezero
Ugugu
stock evga vram pads are 1mm thick and dimensions are 1.2mm X 1.4mm)

 
This is a typo, right? No way the width and length are that small for the VRAM. You meant 1.2in x 1.4in? Or really, I'm thinking they are closer to 11x12mm?
 
I was looking to maybe get some Thermal Grizzly Minus pads to put on my VRAM after I get EVGA's pads for the VRM. They've got a 120x20x1.5mm pad and wondering if that'll be big enough to get all 8 VRAM chips covered or will I need more?


well do the math, you need 8x pads to cover Vrams (1.5mm thickness), dimensions for Vram pad is, and I will repeat again, since people dont bother to read, what I wrote previously, Vram dimensions for 1 chip is 1.4cm X 1.2cm (14mm X 12mm) and thickness is 1.5mm and yes  if you buy 120x20x1.5mm pad should be plenty to cover all eight chips




Ahh, centimeters, that makes more sense. You should really edit your original post, because you put mm. 
 
Thanks for the clarification. 

Intel i7-4770k @ 4.3Ghz |==| Noctua NH-D14
Asus Z87-Plus |==| EVGA GTX 1070 FTW |==| Samsung 840 EVO 250GB
16GB G.Skill Sniper DDR3-1866 |==| SeaSonic SSR-650RM PSU
Windows 10 Pro |==| Fractal Design Define R4 Black Pearl w/Window
#40
Ugugu
New Member
  • Total Posts : 35
  • Reward points : 0
  • Joined: 2016/09/15 15:16:27
  • Status: offline
  • Ribbons : 0
Re: Flaws in evga design and poor quality control, home made fix. 2016/11/04 06:05:45 (permalink)
Legacy-ZA
Oh great, I just logged on and saw this thread. I requested my thermal mod, but it looks like I might need more thermal pads if my VRAM is exposed... I hope you guys are going to send some extra thermal pads with the thermal "mod"... just to be sure.


If I were from evga technical support group, I would indeed include, extra thermal pad with thickness of 1.5mm in `thermalmod`  package, just in case user got gaps under the dark plate, like many of us do, it would ease the life for them and also for evga, since they would avoid extra QQ topics, and one additional pad doesnt cost them anything. At least that would be the racional thnking behind all this, I sincerely hope that they read this and do this right, I still havent played bf1 since all this fiasco started I was moding my card, posting threads and in genaral doing anything else besides gaming :D, stuck on lvl 28 like a bambie
#41
m0bbed
New Member
  • Total Posts : 12
  • Reward points : 0
  • Joined: 2013/10/18 11:45:20
  • Status: offline
  • Ribbons : 0
Re: Flaws in evga design and poor quality control, home made fix. 2016/11/04 06:17:39 (permalink)
I cant see any Pictures in the first post :(
 
I am interested in doing all that therefore some Fotos would be very helpful
#42
Scarlet-Tech
EVGA Forum Moderator
  • Total Posts : 12335
  • Reward points : 0
  • Joined: 2013/11/13 02:48:57
  • Location: East Coast
  • Status: online
  • Ribbons : 31
Re: Flaws in evga design and poor quality control, home made fix. 2016/11/04 06:30:13 (permalink)
m0bbed
I cant see any Pictures in the first post :(
 
I am interested in doing all that therefore some Fotos would be very helpful


I think the hosting site is having issues right now. The pictures stopped showing up for me as well.

If you would like to use an affiliate code to register a product, feel free use this one: >Click Here<  This is not my affiliate code! This is a random users code. This code will change often, and you will never be told who it belongs to! If you would like the possibility of your code being listed above, it must be in your signature block. I will not take requests to use a specific code.
#43
malon
New Member
  • Total Posts : 1
  • Reward points : 0
  • Joined: 2016/11/04 07:53:53
  • Status: offline
  • Ribbons : 0
Re: Flaws in evga design and poor quality control, home made fix. 2016/11/04 08:02:33 (permalink)
Hello,
Is this only a FTW model issue? I have a GTX 1070 SC and I am wondering if this is also happening with that model
#44
Mr0czny
New Member
  • Total Posts : 3
  • Reward points : 0
  • Joined: 2009/01/23 05:41:03
  • Status: offline
  • Ribbons : 0
Re: Flaws in evga design and poor quality control, home made fix. 2016/11/04 12:27:57 (permalink)
Ugugu can you upload your photos again to another site because those from first post doesnt work

CPU: Delided Intel i7-6700K @ 4.5 GHz Phanteks TC14PE + TY143 | MOBO: Asus Maximus VIII Gene
RAM: G.Skill Trident Z 16 GB @ 3600 CL16 | GPU: EVGA GTX 1070 FTW
SSD: Plextor M8PeG 512 GB & Samsung 850 Evo 500 GB | PSU: Corsair AX760 |
Case: Hexgear R40 | Monitor: LG 34UM68 | OS: Windows 10 Pro x64
#45
Ugugu
New Member
  • Total Posts : 35
  • Reward points : 0
  • Joined: 2016/09/15 15:16:27
  • Status: offline
  • Ribbons : 0
Re: Flaws in evga design and poor quality control, home made fix. 2016/11/04 14:21:29 (permalink)
Give me a second guys, I will reupload pictures, it appears tinypic stopped to host em.
#46
Ugugu
New Member
  • Total Posts : 35
  • Reward points : 0
  • Joined: 2016/09/15 15:16:27
  • Status: offline
  • Ribbons : 0
Re: Flaws in evga design and poor quality control, home made fix. 2016/11/04 14:50:30 (permalink)
malon
Hello,
Is this only a FTW model issue? I have a GTX 1070 SC and I am wondering if this is also happening with that model


I think SC line was affected as well, but yeah mainly FTW, but check again I'm not 100% sure about SC, I red somewhere before in evga forums that SC also had similar issues, never the less if you got SC card open it up and make sure that all pads are firmly connected to components, by that I mean a proper indentations in pads, if there is a good mold you know that a pad is making a good contact.
#47
NeroRay
New Member
  • Total Posts : 19
  • Reward points : 0
  • Joined: 2016/10/17 08:11:26
  • Status: offline
  • Ribbons : 0
Re: Flaws in evga design and poor quality control, home made fix. 2016/11/04 15:07:57 (permalink)
There are a bunch of reports in a german forum about gaps between vram and plate (for both SC and FTW cards). I wonder how something like this can be missed. 
#48
Stoltzman1972
New Member
  • Total Posts : 10
  • Reward points : 0
  • Joined: 2016/09/05 12:29:44
  • Status: offline
  • Ribbons : 0
Re: Flaws in evga design and poor quality control, home made fix. 2016/11/04 15:18:01 (permalink)
Would it be ok to use 1.5mm thick pad for "wide pad"?
Because i really can buy big piece of 1.5mm thick pad and cut it for 8 vram chips, narrow pad and wide pad and still have leftovers..
#49
Ugugu
New Member
  • Total Posts : 35
  • Reward points : 0
  • Joined: 2016/09/15 15:16:27
  • Status: offline
  • Ribbons : 0
Re: Flaws in evga design and poor quality control, home made fix. 2016/11/04 15:22:59 (permalink)
NeroRay
There are a bunch of reports in a german forum about gaps between vram and plate (for both SC and FTW cards). I wonder how something like this can be missed. 


Its called poor quality control, because if something looks good and matches on paper or 2DCAD, doesnt mean  its the same in real life. My assumption is they failed to validate the finished product firstly. Also funny how all review sites, tom's, gamersnexus, fudzilla and others, when the cards first came out and got disassembled to give us a inside looks in cooler and temps, no1 of them bothered to check gaps and point thermal gun at backplate of the card, and surely few months later when cards started to pop, under a real life use or just bad luck, all of suddenly report started to come in with issues, after all people had purchased these cards. Maybe the evga is the only company who makes money by RMA :D, because they still ship cards out with old think 1mm pads that goes over Vram and VRMs, they havent updated the ''thermalmod'' If this how ever continues we might see a new line of reports that have damaged vrams and vrms pretty soon as well as a second ''thermalmod'', like I said before they could avoid this by adding an extra pad into their current mod pack, all they have to do is calculate 2 sections to cover: 8xVrams (1.5mmX14mmX12mm)and 1x VRMs line (1.5mmX~6-7mmX105mm).
#50
Ugugu
New Member
  • Total Posts : 35
  • Reward points : 0
  • Joined: 2016/09/15 15:16:27
  • Status: offline
  • Ribbons : 0
Re: Flaws in evga design and poor quality control, home made fix. 2016/11/04 15:24:13 (permalink)
Stoltzman1972
Would it be ok to use 1.5mm thick pad for "wide pad"?
Because i really can buy big piece of 1.5mm thick pad and cut it for 8 vram chips, narrow pad and wide pad and still have leftovers..


No my friend, for a ''wide pad'' you need a 2mm thick pad, you cna buy 2x1mm thick pads and stack them up like I did in my build, for a time being while I wait on the new pads. it works and will protect your card. Actually I will edit my current main thread from beginning and at teh end add, all sizes for mods, that I did to make things easier for new comers, who doesn't want to fight their way through this thread.
post edited by Ugugu - 2016/11/04 15:26:56
#51
Stoltzman1972
New Member
  • Total Posts : 10
  • Reward points : 0
  • Joined: 2016/09/05 12:29:44
  • Status: offline
  • Ribbons : 0
Re: Flaws in evga design and poor quality control, home made fix. 2016/11/04 15:27:06 (permalink)
Ugugu
Stoltzman1972
Would it be ok to use 1.5mm thick pad for "wide pad"?
Because i really can buy big piece of 1.5mm thick pad and cut it for 8 vram chips, narrow pad and wide pad and still have leftovers..


No my friend, for a ''wide pad'' you need a 2mm thick pad, you cna buy 2x1mm thick pads and stack them up like I did in my build, for a time being while I wait on the new pads. it works and will protect your card.




1.5+0.5 will also be okay i guess.. It just means i will have to spend a little bit more %)
#52
Ugugu
New Member
  • Total Posts : 35
  • Reward points : 0
  • Joined: 2016/09/15 15:16:27
  • Status: offline
  • Ribbons : 0
Re: Flaws in evga design and poor quality control, home made fix. 2016/11/04 15:54:58 (permalink)
Also can you guys confirm or check if micron Vram isn't at the same height as samsung Vram? That could be an issue why people having these gaps... I have micron memory and gaps, can some1 with samsung memory can confirm this?
#53
XxTaikenxX
New Member
  • Total Posts : 12
  • Reward points : 0
  • Joined: 2016/07/01 21:54:00
  • Status: offline
  • Ribbons : 0
Re: Flaws in evga design and poor quality control, home made fix. 2016/11/04 16:04:36 (permalink)
Hey guys. I am planning on purchasing the Hybrid kit for the gtx 1080 FTW shown below. 
 
If you check the images on the kit, it uses a copper plate to cover the vram. If that's the case, would I need to replace the thermal pads on anything since it replaces the ACX 3.0 cooler for the Hybrid cooler and the copper plate covers the vram to cool it along side the gpu?
post edited by XxTaikenxX - 2016/11/04 16:10:44

Attached Image(s)

#54
EVGATech_LeeM
EVGA Tech Support
  • Total Posts : 10
  • Reward points : 0
  • Joined: 2016/11/04 14:43:35
  • Location: Brea, CA
  • Status: offline
  • Ribbons : 0
Re: Flaws in evga design and poor quality control, home made fix. 2016/11/04 17:00:33 (permalink)
XxTaikenxX
Hey guys. I am planning on purchasing the Hybrid kit for the gtx 1080 FTW shown below. 
 
If you check the images on the kit, it uses a copper plate to cover the vram. If that's the case, would I need to replace the thermal pads on anything since it replaces the ACX 3.0 cooler for the Hybrid cooler and the copper plate covers the vram to cool it along side the gpu?


No. The Hybrid uses a completely different type of cooling plate, which means you'll only add what comes with the Hybrid kit.
#55
Ugugu
New Member
  • Total Posts : 35
  • Reward points : 0
  • Joined: 2016/09/15 15:16:27
  • Status: offline
  • Ribbons : 0
Re: Flaws in evga design and poor quality control, home made fix. 2016/11/04 17:13:19 (permalink)
I got contacted by evga representative, and he said by doing all of this (fixing their incompetent errors) you may void your warranty, so be conscious and use your common sense also when you remove the stock pads that does not match, keep them in some bag, and if you ever wanna RMA your card put them back before shipping, that way, they cant mess with you. here is the whole message from evga:
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi there,

I mainly write to you asking that you place at the top of your OP that doing this mod may void your warranty.

Although we don't believe your method is necessary, we have a strong history of encouraging our enthusiast community, even some that wish to do extreme mods that may cause physical damage and void their warranties. However, those enthusiasts generally are aware that what they are doing will void their warranties, and I'm not sure that readers of your thread may understand that.

I do not believe that your thread should be removed, by any means, but I do request that you place a note at the top of your thread that completing your mod may void your warranty.

Cheers,
Lee
 
This is now on the top of the thread, so they dont delete this thread. Also I dont understand how can we damage our cards just by switching correct thickness pads, I guess they do indeed make money from RMA once you pop your Vram or vrms, strange but okay. I would like to hear what other users think about this by reading a this private message.
#56
DeadMedic
SSC Member
  • Total Posts : 591
  • Reward points : 0
  • Joined: 2005/12/06 19:04:59
  • Location: NY,NY
  • Status: offline
  • Ribbons : 5
Re: Flaws in evga design and poor quality control, home made fix. 2016/11/04 17:16:08 (permalink)
Just curious, what not just use something like AS Ceramique? I've used it in the past on VRAM heat sink chips & it works great.
Dab, dab, squish the plate down & done. Seems a little easier than all this measuring and different size heat pads. 

Corsair 780t
Corsair AX1200
ASUS x99 Sabertooth
Intel i7 5930K @ 4.2G
32G DDR4 2800 (G.Skill Ripjaw)
EVGA GTX 980ti x 2 SLI
2 x Samsung 840Pro 512GB Raid0
Win 8.1 x64
Creative Sound Blaster Z
2 x WD 2Tb Black
WD 2Tb Green 

Heatware
#57
ipkha
SSC Member
  • Total Posts : 984
  • Reward points : 0
  • Joined: 2015/02/10 21:01:40
  • Location: Indianna
  • Status: offline
  • Ribbons : 2
Re: Flaws in evga design and poor quality control, home made fix. 2016/11/04 19:49:44 (permalink)
DeadMedic
Just curious, what not just use something like AS Ceramique? I've used it in the past on VRAM heat sink chips & it works great.
Dab, dab, squish the plate down & done. Seems a little easier than all this measuring and different size heat pads. 

The cooling plate doesn't make direct contact, thus the pads. Paste is designed for direct contact and you don't have that here.



#58
acxcoolerssuck
Superclocked Member
  • Total Posts : 152
  • Reward points : 0
  • Joined: 2016/07/01 06:27:49
  • Status: online
  • Ribbons : 0
Re: Flaws in evga design and poor quality control, home made fix. 2016/11/04 22:18:57 (permalink)

no worries now.
#59
DeadMedic
SSC Member
  • Total Posts : 591
  • Reward points : 0
  • Joined: 2005/12/06 19:04:59
  • Location: NY,NY
  • Status: offline
  • Ribbons : 5
Re: Flaws in evga design and poor quality control, home made fix. 2016/11/05 03:35:25 (permalink)
ipkha
DeadMedic
Just curious, what not just use something like AS Ceramique? I've used it in the past on VRAM heat sink chips & it works great.
Dab, dab, squish the plate down & done. Seems a little easier than all this measuring and different size heat pads. 

The cooling plate doesn't make direct contact, thus the pads. Paste is designed for direct contact and you don't have that here.

Good point.

Corsair 780t
Corsair AX1200
ASUS x99 Sabertooth
Intel i7 5930K @ 4.2G
32G DDR4 2800 (G.Skill Ripjaw)
EVGA GTX 980ti x 2 SLI
2 x Samsung 840Pro 512GB Raid0
Win 8.1 x64
Creative Sound Blaster Z
2 x WD 2Tb Black
WD 2Tb Green 

Heatware
#60
Page: < 123 > Showing page 2 of 3
Jump to:
  • Back to Mobile