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AnsweredBoard refuses SLI in x16/x16 3.0 mode

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tiberiusisgame
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2016/09/20 14:59:56 (permalink)
I'm really hoping that I missed a glaring configuration option but I would be extremely grateful for support with this issue.
 
My Z97 Classified has 2 EVGA 980 SCs in slots 1 and 4, which the manual says both support x16. I have no other PCIe slots populated, however slot 1's GPU reports x8 in the BIOS and in GPU-Z.
 
Here's what I've done to attempt to solve this:
 
1. Updated to BIOS version 2.04. This eliminated the Power Management 24pin/6pin option, but I do have the 6pin installed.
2. Physically disabled the DIP switches on the PCIe slots that aren't populated. 
3. Disabled internal sound card, SATA RAID, and mSATA. I don't use any of these.
4. Ensured no O/C was enabled. Still the case; I'm fully stock.
5. Ensured Primary Display was set to PEG and disabled internal graphics. 
6. Forced the PCIe Configuration for slots 1 and 4 to Gen3, just in case.
7. I tried 2 SLI bridges that came with the motherboard; the soft and the hard one. 
 
I tried each of these steps separately.
My i7 4790K supports 40 PCIe lanes so there's no reason here why both of these cards shouldn't run in 16x.
 
Thank you in advance for your advice!
 

 
 

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Sajin
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Re: Board refuses SLI in x16/x16 3.0 mode 2016/09/20 15:05:50 (permalink) ☼ Best Answerby tiberiusisgame 2016/09/20 15:26:41
4790k only has 16 pci-e lanes. http://ark.intel.com/prod...M-Cache-up-to-4_40-GHz
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tiberiusisgame
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Re: Board refuses SLI in x16/x16 3.0 mode 2016/09/20 15:20:40 (permalink)
My mistake. With PCH it supports 40 lanes. The motherboard should recognize that, no?
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Sajin
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Re: Board refuses SLI in x16/x16 3.0 mode 2016/09/20 15:21:49 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby tiberiusisgame 2016/09/20 15:26:33
PCH is PCI-E 2.0 not 3.0. Your cpu only has 16 pci-e 3.0 lanes.
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tiberiusisgame
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Re: Board refuses SLI in x16/x16 3.0 mode 2016/09/20 15:26:07 (permalink)
I see.... so I could run in 16/16 at PCIe 2.0. Which would explain why all the posts I saw from older boards talked about 16/16 support for, say, 690 SLI, but 3.0 is faster even in my configuration...
 
Thank you for explaining that to me! Very informative. 
 
Would you be able to tell me why the board is reporting slot 1 as 8x and slot 4 as 16x, and if this is accurate, how I might reverse these, since the first card is preferred by the system?
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Sajin
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Re: Board refuses SLI in x16/x16 3.0 mode 2016/09/20 16:56:32 (permalink)
Could you try swapping the cards around and letting me know the results?
post edited by Sajin - 2016/09/20 17:03:58
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tiberiusisgame
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Re: Board refuses SLI in x16/x16 3.0 mode 2016/09/20 18:29:25 (permalink)
I swapped them but the BIOS still shows the same result; 8x in the first slot and 16x in the 4th. 
 
Interesting, whereas before GPU-Z showed the first card running at 8x 1.1, it now shows 8x 3.0, and both times it showed the second card as 16x 3.0.
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Sajin
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Re: Board refuses SLI in x16/x16 3.0 mode 2016/09/20 18:37:08 (permalink)
Try moving the first card to slot #2. 
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tiberiusisgame
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Re: Board refuses SLI in x16/x16 3.0 mode 2016/09/20 18:57:47 (permalink)
I can't even get the display to come on in that configuration. I don't think I can do 2 and 4. I remember discussing this with someone at EVGA before... 
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Sajin
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Re: Board refuses SLI in x16/x16 3.0 mode 2016/09/20 19:05:18 (permalink)
Hmm. Bet there is something wrong with the board/bios. I see evga no longer sells just the normal classified board. All I see is the classified k listed.
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tiberiusisgame
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Re: Board refuses SLI in x16/x16 3.0 mode 2016/09/20 19:08:58 (permalink)
They no longer sell the 'Z97' Classified anymore. They do have the X99 Classified. I'll bet the K designation was a nod to certain chips being unable to be overclocked and EVGA's offer that the board would still support it. 
 
Either way, I think I'll as EVGA about this specific thing. I'm running their latest BIOS and it's still within warranty. I haven't had this board but about a year.
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LazySoft
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Re: Board refuses SLI in x16/x16 3.0 mode 2016/09/20 20:15:27 (permalink)
This is the chart over the PCI-E lanes for the Z97 C
PCI-E Lane Distribution
 PE1 – x16 (x8 if PE2 is used)
 PE2 – x16 (x8 if PE3 is used)
 PE3 – x8
 PE4 – x16 (x8 if PE6 is used)
 PE5 – x1
 PE6 – x8
 
My self I use PE1 and PE3 to get real x8 - x8
You could use PE2 and PE4 to get x16 - x16 through the PCI multipler chip and the bus will response to the gpu cards as x16 but you will end up with x8 - x8 to the CPU.
post edited by LazySoft - 2016/09/20 20:26:58



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howdy2u2
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Re: Board refuses SLI in x16/x16 3.0 mode 2016/09/21 04:07:37 (permalink)
This was discussed long ago and the thread is gone. The manual is incorrect, in order to have both cards @ x16 you have to use slots 1 and 2. I purchased this board to use 1 and 4 for slot spacing for X16 since I didn't (at the time) want to water cool my cards. It was determined the the manual was wrong and it was going to be updated to reflect the correct X8/X16 slot configurations..................obviously it never was.
 
Slots 1 and 2= x16/x16
 
Slots 1 and 4= x8/x16
 
EDIT: Same photo, kept telling me image was too large......
post edited by howdy2u2 - 2016/09/21 04:27:28

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tiberiusisgame
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Re: Board refuses SLI in x16/x16 3.0 mode 2016/09/21 05:54:18 (permalink)
howdy2u2
This was discussed long ago and the thread is gone. The manual is incorrect, in order to have both cards @ x16 you have to use slots 1 and 2. I purchased this board to use 1 and 4 for slot spacing for X16 since I didn't (at the time) want to water cool my cards. It was determined the the manual was wrong and it was going to be updated to reflect the correct X8/X16 slot configurations..................obviously it never was.
 
Slots 1 and 2= x16/x16
 
Slots 1 and 4= x8/x16
 
EDIT: Same photo, kept telling me image was too large......




I appreciate your input on this. I'm in the process of getting an answer from EVGA regarding the issue. 
 
The images you posted indicate that lanes 2 and 4 are running at 16x, not 1 and 2. Do you have an image showing slots 1 and 2 running at 16?
 
 
I remember a big advertising point for this board being that you needed space between the two cards for larger coolers, so the idea that they would mislead the consumer into thinking that (as they had advertised) slots 1 and 4 were ideal for SLI seems very strange. I sure wish that post wasn't gone. 
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LazySoft
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Re: Board refuses SLI in x16/x16 3.0 mode 2016/09/21 10:29:15 (permalink)
Here is the thread about it. http://forums.evga.com/8x16x-not-16x16x-m2185490-p7.aspx
On page 7 you will get a great lesson of the problem.
Since you only have 16 PCI-E lanes on the CPU it will be expanded with PLX chip to fake 2 x16 lanes on 2 and 4 but ends up as 2 x8 at CPU.

I get best results with 1 and 3 . 1 at x8 direct on CPU and 3 as fake x16 through the PLX chip that's end up as x8 at CPU.
All will be at gen 3 if your GPU supports it. If not you could try to force gen 3 in BIOS on each lane settings.



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tiberiusisgame
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Re: Board refuses SLI in x16/x16 3.0 mode 2016/09/21 11:18:49 (permalink)
Thanks for the link! I always feel like a numb nut when I bring up an old argument, but in this case I don't really see a resolution.
 
I attempted to force Gen 3 on slots 1 and 4. Everything I attempted is at the top of this post. No change in my results. I'm familiar with the PLX faking the 16, in fact I was counting on it. The main issue I'm really having is that my slot 1 is showing x8 1.1 and slot 4 is showing x16 3.0 in gpu-z and in the BIOS. This has me believing I have a bottleneck with my first card, whereas I would like that limitation to go to the second card, since as we know, SLI still favors the slot 1 GPU. I'd love to run my cards in 1 and 3 but it suffocates the ACX coolers, driving my temp up another 10C. 
 
So... back to where we started. If my BIOS shows 16x on slot 4, can I get it to show 16x on slot 1 and 8x on slot 4? That's what I'm really after. I don't care that I don't have enough physical lanes at the CPU as long as either GPU 1 is receiving more/favored bandwidth or they're getting equal bandwidth. But from what it looks like right now, GPU 1 is 'not' being favored. 
 
As for the previous post; no one from EVGA chimed in on the discussion to put to rest any of these rumors regarding the manual so I don't necessarily believe that the guide is wrong. Not wrong from within the confines of my argument. 
 
TL:DR -> I'd settle for my BIOS showing me x8 for slots 1 and 4 rather than x8 1.1 for slot 1 and x16 3.0 for slot 4.
 
I do agree with the neigh sayers from that post regarding performance/$, however. It's a pedantic argument, to be sure, but if it'll net me 3%, I'll focus on it and leave my OC alone, you know?
 
[edit] does anyone know of a utility or tool which would show me actual bitrate usage of each PCIe lane? That would actually solve this problem by illustrating what is actually happening.
post edited by tiberiusisgame - 2016/09/21 11:21:29
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howdy2u2
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Re: Board refuses SLI in x16/x16 3.0 mode 2016/09/21 13:23:21 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby tiberiusisgame 2016/09/21 13:31:49
tiberiusisgame
As for the previous post; no one from EVGA chimed in on the discussion to put to rest any of these rumors regarding the manual so I don't necessarily believe that the guide is wrong. Not wrong from within the confines of my argument. 
 



Maybe read post #102 ???????????? Hereeeeeeeeeeeeeeee let me get that for ya....................
 

EVGATech_JaesonW
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    Re: 8x/16x not 16x/16x Sunday, July 20, 2014 8:28 AM (permalink)

    Hey everyone, sorry it took so long for an update. I confirmed that there was a misprint in the manual about Lane 1. For 16x/16x, lanes 2 and 4 are the proper lanes to run your cards in, and I was told an update to the manual is forthcoming. I'm very sorry for all the confusion.


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    #17
    tiberiusisgame
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    Re: Board refuses SLI in x16/x16 3.0 mode 2016/09/21 17:26:31 (permalink)
    howdy2u2
     
    Maybe read post #102 ???????????? Hereeeeeeeeeeeeeeee let me get that for ya....................

     
    Well thank you kindly! Now I'm really upset with EVGA. 
     
    I've tested this and in slot 2/4 the BIOS and GPU-Z both report PCI-E 3.0 x16. Yay! But wait...
     
    This board has a very clear gap left between slot 1 and slot 2 which is twice the distance of the rest of the PCIe slots (I know, almost all of them do.) Why, oh why, would anyone SLI 2 cards smack in the middle of their PCIe slots? It doesn't look good and it doesn't make any sense. Slot 1 always has a GPU in it. Card 1 cannot breathe like this. 
     
    Excuse my rant, please, but I just ran a Heaven comparison between the 2 configurations and I got 70 more points and card 1 thermally throttled after it hit 80C, a full 30C higher than card 2. Usually I don't see more than a 10C discrepancy. 

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    LazySoft
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    Re: Board refuses SLI in x16/x16 3.0 mode 2016/09/21 20:26:11 (permalink)
    To use a setup like that, you almost have to put your GPU's under water or have a very good airflow around the GPU's.
    The best air cooling solution for GPU that are so tight is the reference hairblower style.
    Most aftermarket aircooling solution will need at least 1 slot apart some even 2 to get best cooling effect.
     
    EDIT
    Did some test with with GPUz on one GTX 690 (2 GPU on same board) SLI on slot 1.
    The render test says on start both is running at x16 3.0 but after a minute or two the second falls back to 1.1.
    If I recall this right, it's normal if the second GPU is not geting so much workload and then drops back. 
    post edited by LazySoft - 2016/09/21 20:37:26



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    Sajin
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    Re: Board refuses SLI in x16/x16 3.0 mode 2016/09/21 21:07:53 (permalink)
    tiberiusisgame
    I can't even get the display to come on in that configuration. I don't think I can do 2 and 4. I remember discussing this with someone at EVGA before... 


    Slots 2 and 4 are now working? 
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    tiberiusisgame
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    Re: Board refuses SLI in x16/x16 3.0 mode 2016/09/30 05:18:42 (permalink)
    Sajin
    Slots 2 and 4 are now working? 



    Apologies for the late response. Yes, apparently all configurations work. I just have to enter BIOS blindly and then reboot the first time I make a change. I think it's a monitor issue. ASUS ROG Swift. All my hardware is good!
     
    LazySoft
    Did some test with with GPUz on one GTX 690 (2 GPU on same board) SLI on slot 1.
    The render test says on start both is running at x16 3.0 but after a minute or two the second falls back to 1.1.
    If I recall this right, it's normal if the second GPU is not geting so much workload and then drops back. 



    If you're running in slot 1, you aren't using the PLX chipset at all because slot 1 is electrically wired directly to the CPU. This is ideal in scenarios where only a single PCIe slot is required, however I have benched and now proven that 2 cards run better on the PLX than 1 on the CPU and the other on the PLX due to inefficiencies in how they communicate. If you're curious about this, research the chips on the Z97 Classified responsible for this process; the PEX8747 and the ASM1480. The former is the PCIe lane switch and the latter muxes/demuxes the channels.
     
    Ideally I would run my cards in the recommended 2/4 slot configuration but as you pointed out and I complained about, non-blower style coolers really don't like the be stacked. Also, not the most attractive way to run 2 cards, right? I'm hitting 90C on the primary card in that config in a matter of minutes, whereas when I give the card room to breathe it usually peaks around 70C. Not cool.
     
    But... I've come up with a partial solution which gives me decent results with this board, even if it doesn't give me the warm and fuzzy feeling that my system is configured exactly as it should be. I moved the cards to slots 2 and 6. The PLX only provides 8 lanes to slot 6 but because both cards are on the PLX and the primary card receives a greater bandwidth than the secondary card, performance is much better. Aside from significantly higher heaven scores, I see less skipping than in both previous configurations (1/4 and 2/4) and the cards can breathe. I'm lucky that my case apparently doesn't mind a dual slot card in the last slot despite only having 7 cutouts, so I was able to test this and ultimately keep the configuration.
     
     
     
    If anything, it encouraged me to try a different configuration, so thank you to all!
     
     

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    Sajin
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    Re: Board refuses SLI in x16/x16 3.0 mode 2016/09/30 10:43:37 (permalink)
    tiberiusisgame
    however I have benched and now proven that 2 cards run better on the PLX than 1 on the CPU and the other on the PLX due to inefficiencies in how they communicate.

    I can confirm this as well. I seen the same when I was running a Z77 FTW. Glad your issue is now resolved. 
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