kaninja
I really have no issue with any person opting out of standing or honoring it in any way.

Nereus

kaninja
I really have no issue with any person opting out of standing or honoring it in any way.

Normally I'd agree for an individual, but he isn't there representing just himself, he's there representing his team, his supporters, his sponsors, his state etc., and is being paid a hell of a lot of money to do so. If he wants to do so in his own time, go for it, but otherwise hell no. 
 
 

Brad_Hawthorne
 
It is all voluntary. But it is also shows very poor sportsmanship. The problem that bothers me isn't that but rather people have an opinion on everything now and express it. I come at this from a slightly different perspective. When you are wearing a uniform -- any uniform -- everything you do represents who you are participating for.

He has no right to send a political message while suited up unless his employer allowed him to speak for them. Making a political stance like he did reflects badly on the team as a whole. If he wants to protest, do it out of uniform and on his own time.

willem445

MSim
It's the media who started this circus act. They want to distract the sheep from what's really important. This big of a deal over someone remaining seated during the national anthem. If Collins was disrupting the national anthem, that would be a different story. 
 
Thanks to the media, he will probably miss out on sponsorship gigs. You know the coach is going to make him pay during practice.
 

I think this is the best answer here. Stir up peoples "patriotic" emotions and get people in a frenzy distracting from all the unpatriotic shady stuff happening. I really wish I could get political with this post but I wont. Wouldn't surprise me if Collin got a nice bonus for doing this. 

stalinx20
Couldn't help but read the HTMTL address, stating that he will "continue to sit during national anthem". I hope he does and makes a fool out of himself. He should not be in this country, and he is  unamerican. He needs to get the hell out. People like that need to go!!

VegetaCreeper
It doesn't matter what race you are, there are always people who will discriminate against you.  There are many white people who are discriminated by other races/nationalities - Christians are one of the most persecuted people in the world.  There will always be discrimination - but to label USA - probably the BEST country in the world as a whole as a place who discriminates against minorities/blacks is totally bogus. 
 
How many billions of dollars are funded to these minorities that the USA is discriminating against?
 
We have a country that is founded on freedom - THAT ALL MEN ARE CREATED EQUAL - You can stand up against the small population of the world who does discriminate, but don't start talking trash to Lady Liberty - who is a fire burning for equality, justice, and personal freedom - for all men (and women)

rjohnson11
We've had some complaints about this thread as some forum members are leaning towards politics and the subject of politics isn't permitted on the forums. If we have more politic related posts we may have to close this thread so please post without politics. 

kaninja

Nereus

kaninja
I really have no issue with any person opting out of standing or honoring it in any way.

Normally I'd agree for an individual, but he isn't there representing just himself, he's there representing his team, his supporters, his sponsors, his state etc., and is being paid a hell of a lot of money to do so. If he wants to do so in his own time, go for it, but otherwise hell no. 

So what your saying is that he is a slave to his Masters?

My point was more to the fact that the Star Spangled Banner was written by a slave owner, anti-abolitionist, and has verses in it that revel in the death of freed slaves.

Liberty and freedom is not only for rich white people......it is for all people from rich to poor, black, white, brown, red, yellow, and whatever else.

Is the Klu Klux Klan yet labelled a terrorist or domestic terrorist group? Last I checked they were still considered just a group of good 'Ole boys practicing free speech.

Nereus

kaninja

Nereus

kaninja
I really have no issue with any person opting out of standing or honoring it in any way.

Normally I'd agree for an individual, but he isn't there representing just himself, he's there representing his team, his supporters, his sponsors, his state etc., and is being paid a hell of a lot of money to do so. If he wants to do so in his own time, go for it, but otherwise hell no. 

So what your saying is that he is a slave to his Masters?

My point was more to the fact that the Star Spangled Banner was written by a slave owner, anti-abolitionist, and has verses in it that revel in the death of freed slaves.

Liberty and freedom is not only for rich white people......it is for all people from rich to poor, black, white, brown, red, yellow, and whatever else.

Is the Klu Klux Klan yet labelled a terrorist or domestic terrorist group? Last I checked they were still considered just a group of good 'Ole boys practicing free speech.

LOL.. "So what your saying is that he is a slave to his Masters?"  I can't believe you actually wrote that. Wow. No, he's an employee being paid $19m a year to perform a job based on his skills, not his skin color. How the hell did you turn that into 'being a slave to his masters'??? If he was a slave, (a) he wouldn't be getting paid at all, and (b) he'd be whipped for his insolence. Thank God slavery has been abolished.
 
I bet if another team member turned up wearing a KKK hood and waving a confederate flag, he'd be kicked off the team and his contract terminated immediately (which I would agree with), yet he would be exercising his right to an opinion just like Kaepernick is, even if it was an ignorant opinion, and (more relevant perhaps) that opinion would be politically incorrect. You may agree with Kaepernick's reasoning (as I do), but again, he is out there as a representative of the team, his sponsors, his employers, his supporters etc., not just himself. The big difference is that if Kaepernick were kicked off the team for his actions, his employers would be branded racists and BLM would be jumping all over them. Ironic huh.
     

Brad_Hawthorne
People should open their mouths to inform others, not incite them. Athletes are under the misconception that because they're good at sports they're qualified to lecture others. Nothing so stupid as a person who assumes it's a good idea to use their fame to tell others their random opinion. Musicians and actors are stupid like that too. Athletes live in a fantasy world. They're not qualified to make such outlandish statements about injustice. It's hypocritical.

Nereus

kaninja

Nereus

kaninja
I really have no issue with any person opting out of standing or honoring it in any way.

Normally I'd agree for an individual, but he isn't there representing just himself, he's there representing his team, his supporters, his sponsors, his state etc., and is being paid a hell of a lot of money to do so. If he wants to do so in his own time, go for it, but otherwise hell no. 

So what your saying is that he is a slave to his Masters?

My point was more to the fact that the Star Spangled Banner was written by a slave owner, anti-abolitionist, and has verses in it that revel in the death of freed slaves.

Liberty and freedom is not only for rich white people......it is for all people from rich to poor, black, white, brown, red, yellow, and whatever else.

Is the Klu Klux Klan yet labelled a terrorist or domestic terrorist group? Last I checked they were still considered just a group of good 'Ole boys practicing free speech.

LOL.. "So what your saying is that he is a slave to his Masters?"  I can't believe you actually wrote that. No, he's an employee being paid $19m a year to perform a job based on his skills, not his skin color. How the hell did you turn that into 'being a slave to his masters'??? If he was a slave, (a) he wouldn't be getting paid at all, and (b) he'd be whipped for his insolence. Thank God slavery has been abolished.
 
I bet if another team member turned up wearing a KKK hood and waving a confederate flag, he'd be kicked off the team and his contract terminated immediately (which I would agree with), yet he would be exercising his right to an opinion just like Kaepernick is, even if it was an ignorant opinion, and (more relevant perhaps) that opinion would be politically incorrect. You may agree with Kaepernick's reasoning (as I do), but again, he is out there as a representative of the team, his sponsors, his employers, his supporters etc., not just himself. The big difference is that if Kaepernick were kicked off the team for his actions, his employers would be branded racists and BLM would be jumping all over them. Ironic huh.
     

Nereus

kaninja

Nereus

kaninja

Nereus

kaninja
I really have no issue with any person opting out of standing or honoring it in any way.

Normally I'd agree for an individual, but he isn't there representing just himself, he's there representing his team, his supporters, his sponsors, his state etc., and is being paid a hell of a lot of money to do so. If he wants to do so in his own time, go for it, but otherwise hell no. 

So what your saying is that he is a slave to his Masters?

My point was more to the fact that the Star Spangled Banner was written by a slave owner, anti-abolitionist, and has verses in it that revel in the death of freed slaves.

Liberty and freedom is not only for rich white people......it is for all people from rich to poor, black, white, brown, red, yellow, and whatever else.

Is the Klu Klux Klan yet labelled a terrorist or domestic terrorist group? Last I checked they were still considered just a group of good 'Ole boys practicing free speech.

LOL.. "So what your saying is that he is a slave to his Masters?"  I can't believe you actually wrote that. Wow. No, he's an employee being paid $19m a year to perform a job based on his skills, not his skin color. How the hell did you turn that into 'being a slave to his masters'??? If he was a slave, (a) he wouldn't be getting paid at all, and (b) he'd be whipped for his insolence. Thank God slavery has been abolished.

I bet if another team member turned up wearing a KKK hood and waving a confederate flag, he'd be kicked off the team and his contract terminated immediately (which I would agree with), yet he would be exercising his right to an opinion just like Kaepernick is, even if it was an ignorant opinion, and (more relevant perhaps) that opinion would be politically incorrect. You may agree with Kaepernick's reasoning (as I do), but again, he is out there as a representative of the team, his sponsors, his employers, his supporters etc., not just himself. The big difference is that if Kaepernick were kicked off the team for his actions, his employers would be branded racists and BLM would be jumping all over them. Ironic huh.
   

Yes I wrote that. He gets paid to perform on field, show up for practice, show up for promotional events, to represent his team in a positive light.....like following the law, talking in a respectful way, etc.

Thinking what he gets paid somehow should relate to how ultra patriotic he should be is just stupid.

Same goes for Ali when he refused to participate in a war that was started on a lie.....a lie told to the American people. Years later people are still convinced he was wrong for not going and the lie was for the common good......just mind bottling.

LMAO, respecting the flag is hardly ultra-patriotic, and in this context (a football game), it is for many a tradition as much as an act of patriotism - a tradition that pays respect to the USA and what it is supposed to stand for.
 
I believe the majority of Americans perceive the flag and the anthem in the spirit of what America is supposed to be about - opportunity, equality, liberty, freedom etc., despite our history. That is why many people find Kaepernick's actions disrespectful and even offensive - it's not his message that is at issue, it's his method, and unfortunately there are some who will refuse to make that distinction.
 
Even you say he is paid to act in a respectful manner; clearly he is not doing so in the eyes of many, otherwise there would be no controversy about his actions whatsoever.
 
Bringing Ali and Vietnam into this is comparing apples and oranges. There is no draft anymore, the entire US military is a voluntary force now, so no comparison. The analogy I provided of a player demanding the confederate flag be raised instead is much more apt.
 
 
 

Brad_Hawthorne

BF3PRO
The founding fathers would be very disappointed with all the nationalism going on.  Patriotism is just another word for "nationalism".  It's a feel good word used by some.  It's a flag, nothing more nothing less.

I'm confused by people when they say a flag is just a flag. National flags represent culture and sovereign rule of law in physical form. When you stand up and put your hand over your heart or come to attention during the National Anthem it means you are showing those around you that you directly identify with the ideals of the nation, the laws that govern it and the culture that makes up it's population. That is true of any nation's flag. Citizens of that nation that opt out are telling those around them in public that they do not adhere or believe in those values.