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GTX 970 Not Going into Idle with 144Hz

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Eternifity
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2016/02/07 07:45:35 (permalink)
Hello, I've been having issues with my GTX 970 not going into idle mode. My GPU frequencies always stay very high even when I'm doing absolutely nothing. I get 65 degrees C because of this and I don't feel comfortable with that being my idle temperature. After some digging around, I found the issue. The issue is that whenever you have any monitor running at 144hz, the GPU will never go into idle. Hell, you can set it to 120Hz and it will idle, but not 144hz. I don't know it never goes into idle in 144hz, but it totally should. If any from NVIDIA or EVGA sees this, please fix it.
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    Eternifity
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    Re: GTX 970 Not Going into Idle with 144Hz 2016/02/07 07:49:10 (permalink)
    I actually already discovered the solution for this, but it's still very odd. If you change the refresh rate to 144Hz using the Windows app, the GPU never goes into true idle. But if you use Precision X to do it, it will go true idle.
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    stalinx20
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    Re: GTX 970 Not Going into Idle with 144Hz 2016/02/07 19:27:38 (permalink)
    That is correct. It is a weird "feature" for 144hz. However, can you tell the difference from 144hz to 120hz? I can't.
     
    Don't get me wrong, I have 144hz monitor too, but I still don't see the differences. it's just numbers.

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    GarrettL
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    Re: GTX 970 Not Going into Idle with 144Hz 2016/02/07 19:46:45 (permalink)
    Eternifity
    Hell, you can set it to 120Hz and it will idle, but not 144hz. I don't know it never goes into idle in 144hz, but it totally should. If any from NVIDIA or EVGA sees this, please fix it.


    If you think about it, running 1080p at 144Hz is the effectively the same as running 2 1080p monitors at 60Hz plus another at 24Hz (or UHD at 36Hz). So really you're pushing your card into the higher resolution mode which is why it is idling so high as the card is expecting to be pushing a lot more pixels once you're past that threshold and that is much more demanding for the card. 
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    Cool GTX
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    Re: GTX 970 Not Going into Idle with 144Hz 2016/02/07 20:49:30 (permalink)
    EVGATech_GarrettL
    Eternifity
    Hell, you can set it to 120Hz and it will idle, but not 144hz. I don't know it never goes into idle in 144hz, but it totally should. If any from NVIDIA or EVGA sees this, please fix it.


    If you think about it, running 1080p at 144Hz is the effectively the same as running 2 1080p monitors at 60Hz plus another at 24Hz (or UHD at 36Hz). So really you're pushing your card into the higher resolution mode which is why it is idling so high as the card is expecting to be pushing a lot more pixels once you're past that threshold and that is much more demanding for the card. 


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    Cool GTX
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    Re: GTX 970 Not Going into Idle with 144Hz 2016/02/07 20:50:46 (permalink)
    stalinx20
    That is correct. It is a weird "feature" for 144hz. However, can you tell the difference from 144hz to 120hz? I can't.
     
    Don't get me wrong, I have 144hz monitor too, but I still don't see the differences. it's just numbers.


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    Your eyes cannot see the difference, they can't work that fast

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    jonkrmr
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    Re: GTX 970 Not Going into Idle with 144Hz 2016/02/08 13:47:05 (permalink)
    Refresh rate has nothing to do with resolution. It is how fast the screen can accept signals from the video card. It does not affect resolution, only how fast the monitor can refresh the screen every second. A high refresh rate does not put any extra load on the video card. The 144Hz clock down issue is a bug in the Nvidia driver and was fixed in driver 359.06 I believe. The work around for the issue before that was to set Windows refresh rate to 120Hz and then set 144Hz in game or force it in the Nvidia 3D settings game profiles. Make sure you are using the latest Nvidia driver and your card should clock down at 144Hz refresh on the monitor.

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    Eternifity
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    Re: GTX 970 Not Going into Idle with 144Hz 2016/02/08 18:36:15 (permalink)
    I'm  seeing all these comments about how 144hz is such a strain on the GPU and how idling is hard. Except this isn't true. And the idea that "it's only 24Hz difference" is stupid. If it's only 24Hz, why does my GPU flip out about it. And I forgot who got it right, but you have to set the refresh rate to 144Hz through anything other than the Windows Settings.
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    Eternifity
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    Re: GTX 970 Not Going into Idle with 144Hz 2016/02/08 18:40:32 (permalink)
    I'd be afraid to have you as tech support if you think that's true.
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    jonkrmr
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    Re: GTX 970 Not Going into Idle with 144Hz 2016/02/09 06:52:40 (permalink)
    Again, refresh rate has nothing to do with resolution or load on the GPU. The GPU clock down issue at 144Hz refresh rate was a bug in the Nvidia driver and is fixed in the last couple of driver revisions. Install the latest Nvidia driver and the problem should be corrected.

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    ty_ger07
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    Re: GTX 970 Not Going into Idle with 144Hz 2016/02/09 12:26:22 (permalink)
    How can you claim that refresh rate doesn't affect GPU load? When viewing the desktop, refresh rate is tied into graphics card output display frequency. Increasing the refresh rate increases the bandwidth going down the HDMI cable (or whatever output method used). Increased bandwidth must be sustained from its source. What is the source of the bandwidth? The GPU. More refresh rate = more display bandwidth = more GPU load.

    2160p at 24 Hz = 8.16 Gb/s
    2160p at 60 Hz = 14.4 Gb/s

    Where does the processing power for the extra 6.24 Gb/s come from? The GPU. GPU load increases.

    NVIDIA decided years ago that the card should not downclock if there were multiple displays and/or if the monitor(s) were set to over certain frequencies. It wasn't a bug. It was a decision. A decision made a long time ago which has been around for a long time. NVIDIA didn't want to risk graphical artifacts or performance issues. It was only after increased scrutiny that NVIDIA finally gave some people what they wanted and decided that sure it would probably be ok.
    post edited by ty_ger07 - 2016/02/09 21:50:13
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    PlasticFork
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    Re: GTX 970 Not Going into Idle with 144Hz 2016/02/09 21:17:39 (permalink)
    Edit: Nevermind.  Found my problem.
    post edited by PlasticFork - 2016/02/09 21:41:42
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    jonkrmr
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    Re: GTX 970 Not Going into Idle with 144Hz 2016/02/10 16:13:23 (permalink)
    ty_ger07
    How can you claim that refresh rate doesn't affect GPU load? When viewing the desktop, refresh rate is tied into graphics card output display frequency. Increasing the refresh rate increases the bandwidth going down the HDMI cable (or whatever output method used). Increased bandwidth must be sustained from its source. What is the source of the bandwidth? The GPU. More refresh rate = more display bandwidth = more GPU load.

    2160p at 24 Hz = 8.16 Gb/s
    2160p at 60 Hz = 14.4 Gb/s

    Where does the processing power for the extra 6.24 Gb/s come from? The GPU. GPU load increases.

    NVIDIA decided years ago that the card should not downclock if there were multiple displays and/or if the monitor(s) were set to over certain frequencies. It wasn't a bug. It was a decision. A decision made a long time ago which has been around for a long time. NVIDIA didn't want to risk graphical artifacts or performance issues. It was only after increased scrutiny that NVIDIA finally gave some people what they wanted and decided that sure it would probably be ok.

    I wasn't talking about how much load on the GPU, just load. Just because you set the refresh rate to 144Hz does not mean the GPU is under load all the time just because the refresh rate is 144Hz. That's what I was trying to say. The GPU would only be under a load when it is processing instructions from a program. Not just sitting on the Windows desktop idling. 2D mode does not require hardly any processing power so essentially the GPU is pretty much just idling in 2D mode. It should not matter what the refresh rate is set to and the GPU should clock down. When you launch a program that requires the GPU's 3D mode, the GPU clocks up as required to handle the load the GPU is under processing the programs instructions. When the program terminates, the GPU load is gone and it goes back into 2D mode and is idle again, GPU clocks down. Again, should not matter what the refresh rate is set to. The "feature" of it not clocking down at 144Hz refresh just does not make sense as only 144Hz refresh was affected. Not 120 or 100Hz. Why? If what you say is true about Nvidia purposefully doing that, then why not do the same thing at 120Hz or 100Hz? Same issues could arise, right? I have never had an issue with artifacting when the GPU clocks down ever. On any Nvidia GPU. Ever. Nvidia designed the GPU to clock down on purpose to save power when it was not needed. Why would you want your GPU cooking away at full clock speed and fan speed when at the Windows desktop idling away? Again does not make sense. I can't speak about multiple displays as I only use one display. Try this, run a benchmark with your refresh set to 100 and then again at 120 and then again at 144 and see how much difference in the results you get within error margin. I bet you won't see a difference between them.

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    ty_ger07
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    Re: GTX 970 Not Going into Idle with 144Hz 2016/02/11 06:55:04 (permalink)
    Edit: Phew! I can now post replies longer than a couple sentences. What happened to eVGA's server?

    I wasn't talking about how much load on the GPU, just load. Just because you set the refresh rate to 144Hz does not mean the GPU is under load all the time just because the refresh rate is 144Hz.

    Yes, it is under load all the time. Just rendering the same thing over and over again is load. Idling at the desktop is load. Providing an image to your monitor 144 times a second is load. Providing an image to your monitor, even if it is an unmoving desktop image is 33.36 Gb/s to your monitor at 2160p @ 144 Hz. Every image is compiled individually (it can never be assumed that the new image will be the same as the last -- you can only determine that after doing all the work), stored in a frame buffer (memory) 33.36Gb/s, timed with the monitor's refresh rate, read from memory at 33.36 Gb/s, and sent to the monitor when the timing is correct. This means that the GPU is computing and transfering to and from its memory at least 33.36 Gb/s of data while "just idle".

    It IS LOAD. Look at your GPU usage. Look at your memory controller load. Idle is load. Everything is load. Everything faster and bigger is more load. 2D is a load.

    The "feature" of it not clocking down at 144Hz refresh just does not make sense as only 144Hz refresh was affected. Not 120 or 100Hz. Why? If what you say is true about Nvidia purposefully doing that, then why not do the same thing at 120Hz or 100Hz?

    NVIDIA used to prevent downclocking at 120 Hz and above for years. Then NVIDIA started making 144 Hz the threshold for not downclocking. GPUs change and NVIDIA's research findings and opinions change. It was something NVIDIA did on purpose and it wasn't a bug. I don't know the exact combination of frequencies or number of monitors which prevents downclocking; and it keeps changing. I do know that for years, 2 monitors at 60 Hz or 1 monitor at 120 Hz or higher caused the card not to downclock. Recently, it was 144 Hz (at what resolution? I don't know) or multiple monitors (how many?) which caused the GPU not to downclock. It was based on NVIDIA's research.

    The big part of the downclocking issue is whether the video card's memory can process enough Gb/s in downclocked state. When the GPU is downclocked, the memory and memory controller (GPU core) reduce frequency drastically. The memory bandwidth capability in the downclocked state can obviously not be less than the monitor's Gb/s requirement. Unfortunately, if a card needs to be clocked up, it is going to use a considerable amount of power even if barely utilized. Unfortunately, if the downclocked state has too much of a performance impact, it will need to not downclock and instead run at high clocks even if the load is only a couple percentage of its normal full clock capabilities. Since the GPU has to read and write 33.36 Gb/s to/from memory in the example above, the above example would require a minimum of 66.72 Gb/s or memory bandwidth (since read and write may be syncronous). If the card is only capable of 60 Gb/s (for example) of memory bandwidth when downclocked, too bad, but the card will have to upclock. I know it seems wrong to see the card running at high clocks when only having a 2% load, but unfortunately that is just the way it has to be (in this example). That's the price of having a card which is much more powerful than you always need it to be.

    I am almost positive that part of the reason why NVIDIA has been able to downclock more and more at higher and higher resolutions and refresh rates is because they discontinued the unified driver approach. They used to have to provide universal support for older products and we know that aging products wouldn't be able to perform anywhere close to the same level downclocked as current products. Since NVIDIA dropped backwards compatibility, their ability to make more specific changes has increased.
    post edited by ty_ger07 - 2016/02/12 12:08:33
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