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Kicked out for loitering?

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JGLuxe
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2015/10/09 16:43:15 (permalink)
Hey guys, I just have a question.
 
As you know, I try to stay out of trouble now, But last night I was with my car club at a place we usually hang out every Thursday night, There's multiple businesses in that little shopping center, We've been hanging out there for a couple of months already, Never had a problem.
 
Businesses we spend money on every time we're there, Last night for instance, We spent over $100 on Starbucks alone and a couple of people bought food at Wendy's, Which we park right next to. After everyone was leaving, Myself and 1 of my friends and his girlfriend stayed behind to hang out a bit, His girlfriend began driving around the parking lot learning how to drive manual transmission, But wasn't doing anything wrong, Just driving up and turning around, coming back and repeat. Then out of no where, a beat up Toyota Celica pulls up and blocks MY CAR like if he was a damn cop, Doesn't even get out of the car, Just straight up says "You guys can't be hanging out here, If you guys are here next week I'm calling the cops".
 
If we went back on Thursday and they called the cops, you think they can kick us out, So long as we're not doing anything and are actually buying stuff while we're there? A couple months ago we got kicked out from a jack in the box parking lot (Not the club, It was another random meet) and the cop told us "If you want to stay, Go buy something from Jack", It's also dead at the time, 80% of the parking lot is empty, So it's not busy.
 
Thoughts?
 
P.S. We didn't get kicked out by cops, The lazy ass security guard just told us. I'm thinking he was just mad about seeing all of our nice cars there every Thursday night... Lmao. We usually have about 6 2015 Mustang GT's and a couple other older GT's that are nicely fixed up.
post edited by RushXTC - 2015/10/09 16:44:31

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    JustinHEMI
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    Re: Kicked out for loitering? 2015/10/09 16:49:28 (permalink)
    Of course they can kick you out, it's private property. If you've been notified by an agent authorized to represent the wishes of the owner that you're not welcome, then you would be trespassing by ignoring their request not to return.

    Justin

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    hallowen
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    Re: Kicked out for loitering? 2015/10/09 17:03:58 (permalink)
    Don't Know where you are located, But Most of the Mustang Clubs here in Florida USUALLY don't have any problems since we generally have anywhere around 20-30 cars when we meet, Although there ARE a few Occasions when it is WAY past the Closing times of the establishments that the "Blue Meanies" ask us to Move Along.
     
    I been in some nightly meets where the "Local Authorities" just sit there and watch what we are doing, But nothing serious ever happened.
     
    As Far as someone that I didn't know blocking me that didn't show any kind of I.D. and just told me to Leave..... I might have a slight problem with that situation and ask him why? 

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    HAZMAN_THE_GREAT
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    Re: Kicked out for loitering? 2015/10/09 17:13:21 (permalink)
    +1 on what Justin said. Private property means you have to do whatever they say, no buts or ifs.  Honestly if I was a GM of that business or what have you I would kick you out too. Yeah you could of spent some money there on eating or what not but once your done and your just sitting around not conducting anymore business then leave. The owner has other people to conduct business with. You also have to take in consideration that majority of people hate racers or clubs in general and the business may see you as a disruption in their operations. Some customers maybe intimidated in seeing a club, take for example like a biker club, at that bossiness facility by stereotyping you guys as trouble. Catch my drift? I myself am like that. At times I sometimes see those Ruff Rider dudes and I am like the hell with going in here.


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    MSim
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    Re: Kicked out for loitering? 2015/10/09 17:21:52 (permalink)
    I would ask some of the businesses to write  you a letter saying they don't mind you guys hanging out, long as you don't start doing burnouts or causing issues.  That way if anyone does call the cops, you can show them you have permission.  
     
    Another thing you can do is let the businesses know the security guard is causing you not to feel welcome to spend your money in their establishment. If you talk to the right person they could tell that security guard to leave you guys alone unless you do burn outs etc. 
     
     
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    kram36
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    Re: Kicked out for loitering? 2015/10/09 17:25:32 (permalink)
    HAZMAN_THE_GREAT
    +1 on what Justin said. Private property means you have to do whatever they say, no buts or ifs.  Honestly if I was a GM of that business or what have you I would kick you out too. Yeah you could of spent some money there on eating or what not but once your done and your just sitting around not conducting anymore business then leave. The owner has other people to conduct business with. You also have to take in consideration that majority of people hate racers or clubs in general and the business may see you as a disruption in their operations. Some customers maybe intimidated in seeing a club, take for example like a biker club, at that bossiness facility by stereotyping you guys as trouble. Catch my drift? I myself am like that. At times I sometimes see those Ruff Rider dudes and I am like the hell with going in here.


    Wow what a judgmental post.
     
    I would ask the business owner if he/she didn't want you guys hanging out there. If they said they rather you not hang out there, then let them lose money and find a place that welcomes you. If they said they didn't mind, then I would let them know what happened and hopefully the owner would deal with individual.
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    kaninja
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    Re: Kicked out for loitering? 2015/10/09 19:38:00 (permalink)
    Go talk to some of the managers of the businesses ahead of time. Businesses usually like lots of traffic. A&W here where I live opens up their entire parking lot for car enthusiasts every Thursday and gives discounts on food.

    So get approval from a few stores and the next time grumpy rent-a-cop rolls up on you in his pimp ride you can tell him you have prior approval from the businesses so he can go back to fighting real crime now.

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    BF3PRO
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    Re: Kicked out for loitering? 2015/10/09 20:25:51 (permalink)
    That's why you organize a club and negotiate with businesses... We get dicounts and free food from hooters and twin peaks along with other places... Get a businessman to be the president of the club and go from there...

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    XrayMan
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    Re: Kicked out for loitering? 2015/10/09 21:57:03 (permalink)
     
    They had the right to do what they did. If your on their property, they have the right. It's the law. I believe the ones I bolded apply to you, in one way or another.
     
     
    loiter:
     
    To linger or hang around in a public place or business where one has no particular or legal purpose. In many states, cities, and towns there are statutes or ordinances against loitering by which the police can arrest someone who refuses to "move along." There is a question as to whether such laws are constitutional. However, there is often another criminal statute or ordinance which can be applied specifically to control aggressive begging, soliciting prostitution, drug dealing, blocking entries to stores, public drunkenness, or being a public nuisance.

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    JGLuxe
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    Re: Kicked out for loitering? 2015/10/09 22:37:29 (permalink)
    XrayMan
     
    They had the right to do what they did. If your on their property, they have the right. It's the law. I believe the ones I bolded apply to you, in one way or another.
     
     
    loiter:
     
    To linger or hang around in a public place or business where one has no particular or legal purpose. In many states, cities, and towns there are statutes or ordinances against loitering by which the police can arrest someone who refuses to "move along." There is a question as to whether such laws are constitutional. However, there is often another criminal statute or ordinance which can be applied specifically to control aggressive begging, soliciting prostitution, drug dealing, blocking entries to stores, public drunkenness, or being a public nuisance.




    To answer your bolded sections, We do not block entries to any stores, and we are not loud. We also pick up after ourselves. I'm not really sure how to get in contact with the owners, Since it's mostly larger companies... I don't know, Maybe if I got a membership to that 24 hour fitness I'd be allowed to be there without a problem lol.
     
    Either way, It's really dead there at the time we go (8 PM) and we leave around 11PM (24-Hour Fitness  and Wendy's drive-thru are still open at the time) but from 8PM-10PM we make constant trips to Wendy's and Starbucks.
     
    I made this to show how dead it is, Really so they can't use THAT as an excuse.
     
    Red = empty all the time, blue is where there's a couple of cars, Green is where people stop just to use the ATM and then leave, The red arrows are the small portion that we use and not all of it, We usually have like around 15 cars there and that's a good day for us, It's just for our car club, Not a large meet.
     

     
    We'll still go there next Thursday and I'll talk to the other security guard (There's 2, He's usually sitting at the purple area in his car) the other guy is cool with us, It's just this guy having a problem with us. He approached kind of aggressive.

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    MSim
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    Re: Kicked out for loitering? 2015/10/10 00:06:29 (permalink)
    I would speak to the manager at Wendy's. You guys purchase food from his store, maybe he can tell the security guard to leave you guys alone. The parking spots you guys use are out of the way of businesses that are open after 8pm.
     
    I know other car groups have been ran off from home depo (around LA) parking lot, due to people doing burnouts or donuts. It was the home depo where they found a dead body in car that was sitting in the parking lot all summer.
     
     
    post edited by MSim - 2015/10/10 00:08:25
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    Baltothewolf
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    Re: Kicked out for loitering? 2015/10/10 00:10:19 (permalink)
    Are there posted no trespassing signs? Are there any signs posted around about not being on the lot for x amount of time? If not, then that security guard can't do crap. Trust me, I did it for 2 years. Can he call the cops? Sure. But when they get there and you all keep your cool and explain that you are there buying products from the local businesses and having your weekly 'meet' the cops will roll their eyes at the guard, and go. Especially if you guys aren't revving your engines/causing fights/leaving trash everywhere. It's all about how you approach the situation as well. If you explain to the guard what you are doing, and treat him with respect, more times than not they will back off and become friendly. In the event he doesn't, just simply ignore him, and let him call the cops. Then deal with the situation when they arrive. As long as there are no 'no loitering', 'no trespassing' and time limit signs the cops won't cite you.

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    RikkiTorment
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    Re: Kicked out for loitering? 2015/10/10 01:10:57 (permalink)
    We used to have this problem where we would meet up, and it was only five-six of us max.  The Boys In Blue learned real quick it's much better to let us stay and let us leave on our own time, than have those five to six cammed out V8's fire up at 1am and shake the buildings downtown.
     
    We were always respectful, cleaned up after ourselves, never revved or blared music, but I do not hang around car events like that anymore as I hardly have the time these days.
     
    As for the "Private Property" thing, they're somewhat right as it is a rather gray area and can have its boundaries pushed.  If you really want to annoy them, just say "Oh, well we were about to go inside."  And just go in and buy something stupid, you can do it every time if said establishment is actively open.
     
    See if you find out who owns the lot and send them a letter or an email explaining the situation and simply ask for permission, the answers are rarely negative as they would literally be telling you to spend your money elsewhere.
     
    And $100 at Starbucks, you guys must be showing up in your yoga pants and your Ugg boots and can't even! :)

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    Baltothewolf
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    Re: Kicked out for loitering? 2015/10/10 08:07:02 (permalink)
    Bill I think you misunderstood, if the property owner is telling the guard to ask them to leave, that's one thing. However, I have a feeling the guard is just on a power trip. I'm not discouraging Rush from talking to whoever is actually in charge, but if he can't get ahold of them and the cops do get called and they are asked to leave, they probably shouldn't come back next week for a round 2 haha.

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    clo007
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    Re: Kicked out for loitering? 2015/10/11 11:48:43 (permalink)
    You need to find out who the property owner is( I mean the development), not the manager of Wendy's or Starbucks etc. This is a development and you would want to get permission from them. The security would be working for the developer/property management, not any of the restaurants.
     
    I am sure you can work out an agreement and if not,find somewhere else to go.



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    MSim
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    Re: Kicked out for loitering? 2015/10/12 15:11:10 (permalink)
    clo007
    You need to find out who the property owner is( I mean the development), not the manager of Wendy's or Starbucks etc. This is a development and you would want to get permission from them. The security would be working for the developer/property management, not any of the restaurants.
     
    I am sure you can work out an agreement and if not,find somewhere else to go.




    If the police want to run them off the property for loitering, they will ask the store manager or store owner, they won't look up who owns the property. I have seen it happen number of times, the police go inside the store to talk the manager into saying that people hanging out in the parking lot need to leave the property.
     
     
     
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    transdogmifier
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    Re: Kicked out for loitering? 2015/10/13 04:44:13 (permalink)
    Private property owners can kick you off their property. So can their agents.
     
    But ...as far as being intimidated by biker groups..I've never, even with "hells angels" been intimidated or harassed by them..
    they've always been cool. As long as you don't mess with their bikes or them.....they're fine..
     
    at least in my 50+ years of experience.
     

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    NordicJedi
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    Re: Kicked out for loitering? 2015/10/13 12:10:19 (permalink)
    Legally, yes, they can make you leave if it's private property, including the parking lot.  Generally, if you're spending money there and not just hanging out and/or causing problems, then most businesses won't care much.  The security guard may have legitimate concerns or orders to disperse people if they're hanging around, but given the context, I wouldn't be surprised if he's assuming that you guys will start doing donuts sooner or later.  Legal liability is always a concern for businesses.  
     
    Keep in mind, however, that spending money at the shopping center doesn't give you an indefinite amount of time to remain on the premises; once your business is concluded, it's expected that you leave at a reasonable time after.

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    clo007
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    Re: Kicked out for loitering? 2015/10/15 18:12:17 (permalink)
    MSim
    clo007
    You need to find out who the property owner is( I mean the development), not the manager of Wendy's or Starbucks etc. This is a development and you would want to get permission from them. The security would be working for the developer/property management, not any of the restaurants.
     
    I am sure you can work out an agreement and if not,find somewhere else to go.




    If the police want to run them off the property for loitering, they will ask the store manager or store owner, they won't look up who owns the property. I have seen it happen number of times, the police go inside the store to talk the manager into saying that people hanging out in the parking lot need to leave the property.
     
     
     


    And this is where rush needs to go to the property manager to get permission, not the individual stores. i guarantee you the stores have a ground lease, not purchase. All Rush has to do is get permission from the developer/property manager, and it does not matter what Wendy's or the cops say. If the real owner(in this case the developer/property manager) approve them being there, the businesses have no grounds to kick them off.



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    MSim
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    Re: Kicked out for loitering? 2015/10/16 05:23:55 (permalink)
    clo007
    And this is where rush needs to go to the property manager to get permission, not the individual stores. i guarantee you the stores have a ground lease, not purchase. All Rush has to do is get permission from the developer/property manager, and it does not matter what Wendy's or the cops say. If the real owner(in this case the developer/property manager) approve them being there, the businesses have no grounds to kick them off.




    If you lease a property, you have the right to say who's allowed on the property. Stores trespass shoplifters all the time, they don't get approval from the property managers to trespass someone.  I would get the store permission first, before i would even think about going to property manager. Without store permission, they can just tell the property manger to revoke it. You never know what the property manager might say, they could own other shopping outlets where car groups have caused issues before.
     
     
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    clo007
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    Re: Kicked out for loitering? 2015/10/16 19:13:09 (permalink)
    Not true.
    You need to get property management approval before the store. The developer/property manager owns everything, the land the stores are on and the parking lot. The store leasers own lease the land the store is on and in negotiation the contract of the lease terms mainly specify land, cross access agreements, etc. The developer/property manager are the sole owners of the full property, in this case the strip center. They are the ones to go to for parking approval.
     
    How do I know this? I work for a company that will rename nameless that deals with contracts on a daily basis.(Wrinvert could tell you who I work for, but I am not going to say publicly). I see this everyday in lease negotiations with developers/property managers. I guarantee you Wendy's does not write into the lease agreement that they do or do not allow loitering. That is not something a lessee cares about in a contract. They care about possible competition from other businesses in the same strip center ie. chicken, tacos, hamburgers. FWIW, I have read Wendy's leases as they are a company that usually has in same strip areas as the company I work has. They do not discuss parking limitations. That is not what their business is about.
     
     
    Rush, if I was you and your group really wants to use that parking lot for meet ups, go to the property manager/developer, explain it is what you would like to do. Show them a aerial map of what you showed earlier and ask permission to use the spaces specified on a certain day certain times. If you get permission, you can get a letter from the developer/property manager to take to the businesses or the property manager/ developer would do it.
     
     
    post edited by clo007 - 2015/10/16 19:19:00



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    MSim
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    Re: Kicked out for loitering? 2015/10/17 09:05:11 (permalink)
    It is true, if you rent a property, you have the right to tell someone to leave the property. Why do you think police go and talk to store manager for permission to tell group of people they have to leave the property (unless the business already has signs posted saying no loitering).  I never said the business would allow or disallow loitering in the contract.  The property manager will probably tell him to ask the businesses if they mind them hanging out in the parking lot. The property manager would remind him that the businesses have the right to ask them to leave at any time.
     
    If it was my business, i wouldn't allow them to hang out in the parking lot. It's only a matter of time before someone comes by that's not part of the group, that wants to show off by doing burnout/donuts, that will cause other customers not to feel safe visiting my business.  
     
    Wrinvert, now that's a name i haven't heard in awhile. Hes been too good to hang out with us.
     
     
    #22
    JGLuxe
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    Re: Kicked out for loitering? 2015/10/17 10:45:18 (permalink)
    So we ended up going this past Thursday again, Didn't talk to anyone.
     
    The Security guard didn't even bat an eye! I guess he was going through something last week, That's usually what happens... You go on power trips and treat people like you normally wouldn't. We had even more people on Thursday, But everything went good!

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    atfrico
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    Re: Kicked out for loitering? 2015/10/17 11:25:45 (permalink)
    After reading your first post, to be honest Rush, you need to stop assuming people are hating because of you driving a nice car, or you are with a group of high rollers, seriously. Whenever, wherever you go, whether is public or private sector, there is always someone who will be concerned and worried about a bunch of group hanging out in one spot. We, everyone in this world, well mostly, are programmed (sadly to say) to think that a group of people hanging in a spot for long hours = trouble.
    Give you a clear example, i plant my ass in front of your Uncle's auto shop and bring my friends over, don't you think your uncle will be a bit concern about me and my group hanging out outside his shop, does not matter if it is open or close hours? You need to start thinking about the results of your actions whether is good, bad or neutral. Cause = effect, actions = consequences.  My perception of you so far, is that you are looking for attention or want/like to be noticed in a group.  
    post edited by atfrico - 2015/10/17 11:26:57

    Those who abuse power, are nothing but scumbags! The challenge of power is how to use it and not abuse it. The abuse of power that seems to create the most unhappiness is when a person uses personal power to get ahead without regards to the welfare of others, people are obsessed with it. You can take a nice person and turn them into a slob, into an insane being, craving power, destroying anything that stands in their way.
     
     
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    MSim
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    Re: Kicked out for loitering? 2015/10/17 12:30:19 (permalink)
    RushXTC
    So we ended up going this past Thursday again, Didn't talk to anyone.
     
    The Security guard didn't even bat an eye! I guess he was going through something last week, That's usually what happens... You go on power trips and treat people like you normally wouldn't. We had even more people on Thursday, But everything went good!




    You could go up to the security guards, let them know that the car group will make sure everyone knows not to do stupid stuff like donuts,burnouts or drive recklessly in the parking lot.  If they have a problem with anyone in your group, let them know to bring it your attention. 
     
     
     
     
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    Re: Kicked out for loitering? 2015/10/17 15:46:23 (permalink)
    atfrico
    After reading your first post, to be honest Rush, you need to stop assuming people are hating because of you driving a nice car, or you are with a group of high rollers, seriously. Whenever, wherever you go, whether is public or private sector, there is always someone who will be concerned and worried about a bunch of group hanging out in one spot. We, everyone in this world, well mostly, are programmed (sadly to say) to think that a group of people hanging in a spot for long hours = trouble.
    Give you a clear example, i plant my ass in front of your Uncle's auto shop and bring my friends over, don't you think your uncle will be a bit concern about me and my group hanging out outside his shop, does not matter if it is open or close hours? You need to start thinking about the results of your actions whether is good, bad or neutral. Cause = effect, actions = consequences.  My perception of you so far, is that you are looking for attention or want/like to be noticed in a group.  




    Yes, That's why I put nice wheels on my car and modify the exterior, Because of the attention it gets me.
     
    I don't want BAD attention, That's the difference!

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    BF3PRO
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    Re: Kicked out for loitering? 2015/10/17 20:22:44 (permalink)
    atfrico
    After reading your first post, to be honest Rush, you need to stop assuming people are hating because of you driving a nice car, or you are with a group of high rollers, seriously. Whenever, wherever you go, whether is public or private sector, there is always someone who will be concerned and worried about a bunch of group hanging out in one spot. We, everyone in this world, well mostly, are programmed (sadly to say) to think that a group of people hanging in a spot for long hours = trouble.
    Give you a clear example, i plant my ass in front of your Uncle's auto shop and bring my friends over, don't you think your uncle will be a bit concern about me and my group hanging out outside his shop, does not matter if it is open or close hours? You need to start thinking about the results of your actions whether is good, bad or neutral. Cause = effect, actions = consequences.  My perception of you so far, is that you are looking for attention or want/like to be noticed in a group.  
    That's their problem, it is a fact people get jealous easily. I know police discriminate against cars like these. Put a soccer mom in a minivan going 20 over and rush going 20 over and see who gets the ticket....

    My Affiliate Code: OEESSSDNZV

     
    #27
    atfrico
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    Re: Kicked out for loitering? 2015/10/18 05:47:50 (permalink)
    RushXTC
     
    Yes, That's why I put nice wheels on my car and modify the exterior, Because of the attention it gets me.
     
    I don't want BAD attention, That's the difference!


    There is nothing wrong about modifying your car to look better, but in doing so you get the attention good or bad. You are likely to be targeted easily by the no so bright people just a heads up. 

    BF3PRO
    That's their problem, it is a fact people get jealous easily. I know police discriminate against cars like these. Put a soccer mom in a minivan going 20 over and rush going 20 over and see who gets the ticket....

    I understand but in reality, you put yourself in that position and situation. Since you know how the deal works, you need to make a few adjustments.
    The best possible way to get the jealous attention away from you, is by putting a dash camera up front and back of your car. That way whoever hates or gets jealous of your car, knows you have cameras in your vehicle prompt to record anything they do, yes that includes the law enforcement.
    You and rush make it seemed that everyone is after you or hating/jealous of you but in reality everything you do attracts attention, someday you attract the wrong people's attention and is going to escalate into a very bad situation, this is something you guys need to start taking seriously.  Having a great looking car is a nice confidence booster, but you need to understand people who cant have what you have, will take that away (steal it) from you. Some individuals might follow you to know where you live, it could be your friends, relatives, girlfriend, parents place, don't matter where you are staying at, you are putting them in danger of being robbed as well.
    post edited by atfrico - 2015/10/18 06:00:28

    Those who abuse power, are nothing but scumbags! The challenge of power is how to use it and not abuse it. The abuse of power that seems to create the most unhappiness is when a person uses personal power to get ahead without regards to the welfare of others, people are obsessed with it. You can take a nice person and turn them into a slob, into an insane being, craving power, destroying anything that stands in their way.
     
     
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