Zuhl3156
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Re: Win10 Concensus?
2015/10/05 07:09:38
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rjohnson11
I respect your opinion but Microsoft allowed thousands and thousand of users to test Windows 10 until the final version release. All of the bugs that I reported during the testing phase were fixed. New insider builds continue to be released and tested and yes I submitted bugs for those new insider builds as well.
I'm a professional software/hardware tester by profession and Windows 10 is stable and is highly approved (by me). The new Microsoft Edge browser is a welcome addition. If I compare Windows 7 and Windows 10 then Windows 10 is faster, more stable, and is highly integrated with the cloud. Windows 8 was a total disaster and Windows 8.1 was a patch of that disaster until Windows 10 could become available.
I appreciate the time and effort committed to the developement of Windows 10 by yourself and many other MS Insiders. I don't have the time or energy to be testing these newer options from MS where I had no choice with Vista being the disaster that it was for me. I like the idea of quicker bug fixes but not the forced driver updates for hardware. Especially when it comes to video drivers, newer isn't always better. If my memory serves me well, it was the video drivers from both nVidia and AMD that were the real cause of the downfall of Vista. My laptop uses the Intel graphics and never had the issues that my desktop had with Vista but it was extremely slow loading up from a cold boot. Upgrading from Vista to Windows 7 cut the boot time by more than half. The average or not so average home users of Windows 10 are very happy with it. It's just a nuisance to the performance community but since we're a very small minority of Microsoft users I feel that out concerns about the hardware updates will fall on deaf ears.
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transdogmifier
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Re: Win10 Concensus?
2015/10/05 07:12:52
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Google and Microsoft can ...go someplace hot.
I won't update to 10, it's garbage. and "I don't like spying but what can you do?" ...really? You can refuse to use the product en masse
until they don't do it.
But no, the "what can you do?" is your excuse to just accept it.
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Zuhl3156
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Re: Win10 Concensus?
2015/10/05 07:22:02
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transdogmifier
Google and Microsoft can ...go someplace hot.
I won't update to 10, it's garbage. and "I don't like spying but what can you do?" ...really? You can refuse to use the product en masse
until they don't do it.
But no, the "what can you do?" is your excuse to just accept it.
You agree to send the same crash reports and data back to the programmers when you jump into the chance to get into the 'Open Beta' phase of a new game. This is why I have to look at Windows 10 as a permanent beta phase operating system. If you look at it in those terms it really isn't spying so much as it's being a beta tester.
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d.burnette
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Re: Win10 Concensus?
2015/10/05 07:22:04
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Zuhl3156
I like the idea of quicker bug fixes but not the forced driver updates for hardware. Especially when it comes to video drivers, newer isn't always better.
This, would be one big reason I would not make the switch at this time. As a PC Enthusiast , ie customize and build my own setups, I want to be able to install and use whatever hardware drivers I choose for my hardware, not what MS thinks I should use...
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bsmegreg
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Re: Win10 Concensus?
2015/10/05 07:30:07
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I'm still on 7 and after using the beta when it was first released on Dream Sparks (10 months ago or so), I saw it was disaster. I guess I knew at the time that they would improve it (fix bugs), but I just lost faith in Windows after XP.
Windows 7 is great though.
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CoercionShaman
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Re: Win10 Concensus?
2015/10/05 07:33:01
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transdogmifier
Google and Microsoft can ...go someplace hot.
I won't update to 10, it's garbage. and "I don't like spying but what can you do?" ...really? You can refuse to use the product en masse
until they don't do it.
But no, the "what can you do?" is your excuse to just accept it.
Unless you completely unplug from the internet, nothing is free of the potential to be logged and looked at in some sense. All you can do anymore is minimize it, but that is another discussion for a different forum.
What use is knowledge if there is no understanding?~Stobaeus
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bsmegreg
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Re: Win10 Concensus?
2015/10/05 07:54:27
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CoercionShaman
transdogmifier
Google and Microsoft can ...go someplace hot.
I won't update to 10, it's garbage. and "I don't like spying but what can you do?" ...really? You can refuse to use the product en masse
until they don't do it.
But no, the "what can you do?" is your excuse to just accept it.
Unless you completely unplug from the internet, nothing is free of the potential to be logged and looked at in some sense. All you can do anymore is minimize it, but that is another discussion for a different forum.
GNU/Linux + VPN = very, very minimized. I'm not paranoid about it so I don't. I can't even use Linux... (Haven't learned how) But that would probably be the most minimized.
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wmmills
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Re: Win10 Concensus?
2015/10/05 07:57:41
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Zuhl3156
transdogmifier
Google and Microsoft can ...go someplace hot.
I won't update to 10, it's garbage. and "I don't like spying but what can you do?" ...really? You can refuse to use the product en masse
until they don't do it.
But no, the "what can you do?" is your excuse to just accept it.
You agree to send the same crash reports and data back to the programmers when you jump into the chance to get into the 'Open Beta' phase of a new game. This is why I have to look at Windows 10 as a permanent beta phase operating system. If you look at it in those terms it really isn't spying so much as it's being a beta tester.
As Tyger brought up earlier in the thread, a application or a game is a lot different than a whole OS that's running said games,other apps and everything else. As far as MS locking up updates the way they did, that was bad enough. Then they want to push these mandatory "spydates" on you and take that one step even farther, deciding that they weren't going to publish what they are and what they contain anymore, which that right there is what pushes me off the line of indecision and onto the side of im not touching it. That's crazy. I refuse to put anything on my machine unless I have some inkling of what it could be. The telemetry thing is no good either. Apparently, their is no real way to shut it down and stop it unless you unplug from the internet, which is pretty unbelievable too. Now that is the very definition of persistent malware. Now i know why they decided they better give it away for free because no one in their right mind would buy into this kind of insecurity, and these are only the things outsiders have figured out. Who knows what other backdoors are really in there.
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CoercionShaman
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Re: Win10 Concensus?
2015/10/05 08:00:45
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bsmegreg
CoercionShaman
For the vast majority of users, unless you completely unplug from the internet, nothing is free of the potential to be logged and looked at in some sense. All you can do anymore is minimize it, but that is another discussion for a different forum.
GNU/Linux + VPN = very, very minimized. I'm not paranoid about it so I don't. I can't even use Linux... (Haven't learned how) But that would probably be the most minimized.
There. You are right, so I fixed my previous statement in the quote. Linux comes with it's own issues. We use it at work albeit with a modified GUI that makes it appear more Windows-like for our users. And VPN services are often questionable anymore.
What use is knowledge if there is no understanding?~Stobaeus
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agent8
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Re: Win10 Concensus?
2015/10/05 08:12:46
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I actually disable my connection adapter on my main rig 99% of the time. I don't play multiplayer too often and I just don't like having it connected unless I am updating a video card driver or a game update from Steam. I have all the spy crap disabled and it is Windows 7 but I just feel better about it.
My Htpc is also Windows 7 but it is always online. I have disabled all I could including windows updates until I review them. I have a 3m down and 1 up on a good day so I can't have things just updating whenever they feel like it. I understand looking at all of it from a "beta testing" point of view but to me, they can do that without telemetry and collecting everything else. I never sign in to Google unless I am checking my gmail and I don't do Facebook or any other social networking. It comes down ,to me, that it is too much control for one entity to have. I hate seeing all these stats too about how many people are using windows 10. Many people don't know, or don't have a choice. It is pretty much shoved down the throats of the masses. Cleaver use of the word "free" and all the lemmings come running.
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bdary
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Re: Win10 Concensus?
2015/10/05 08:33:41
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1Scotty1
ty_ger07
Google and Facebook are web services which people can either choose to use or not use. If you stop going to their website, they stop collecting information. Windows 10 is an operating system which will continue to collect information every time you turn the computer on regardless of which websites or services you use. It's an apples to oranges comparison.
I have yet to see a person that doesn't use Google :) And afaik the Win10 "Spying" can be blocked, I have it blocked for instance :)
I don't and never have used Google. Or facebook for that matter or any other social media.
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Valhoon
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Re: Win10 Concensus?
2015/10/05 08:54:31
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I honestly quite like Windows 10. And please no one take this as a personal attack people it's not but I feel like people want something to nag about. It's miles better than the 8/8.1 fiasco. Only issue I've noticed is after a day or so of running it seems to have a memory leak. Though a quick reboot solves that.
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bsmegreg
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Re: Win10 Concensus?
2015/10/05 09:19:13
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We are crossing from a Windows 10 conversation into a Stallmanism conversation.
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Sajin
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Re: Win10 Concensus?
2015/10/05 16:46:25
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No issues with windows 10 since installing the 10240 build. Why is this being discussed in the 900 series section? Shouldn't this be listed under general software?
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patchesanook
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XrayMan
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Re: Win10 Concensus?
2015/10/05 20:19:18
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Moving to General Software.
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arestavo
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Re: Win10 Concensus?
2015/10/05 20:20:31
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bsmegreg
It's great when you have it blocked and then you are doing something private in front of your webcam and packets get sent. Then you wonder why...
I've just heard of this happening.
Because even if you disable it in Windows, it still sends it out anyways. Just like if you disable Windows updates, you still get Windows updates. It is hard coded into the OS to let that crap past - you need a hardware firewall (not installed on your computer) in order to block it.
post edited by arestavo - 2015/10/05 20:24:47
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Sajin
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Re: Win10 Concensus?
2015/10/05 20:28:08
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arestavo
bsmegreg
It's great when you have it blocked and then you are doing something private in front of your webcam and packets get sent. Then you wonder why...
I've just heard of this happening.
Because even if you disable it in Windows, it still sends it out anyways. Just like if you disable Windows updates, you still get Windows updates. It is hard coded into the OS to let that crap past - you need a hardware firewall (not installed on your computer) in order to block it.
People keep saying this but I've never received any updates yet.
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kram36
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Re: Win10 Concensus?
2015/10/05 22:51:00
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I use this software. Turns of pretty much anything you want turned off. http://www.oo-software.com/en/shutup10/update A few bugs that I have had. When I minimize FireFox, Win 10 opens up a window displaying my saved pictures or it will open up the Calculator. Strange.
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yogibear1234
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Re: Win10 Concensus?
2015/10/06 06:45:17
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bsmegreg
We are crossing from a Windows 10 conversation into a Stallmanism conversation.
How can you avoid it? A lot of people have never read '1984' or know anything about history and mass executions. Most people haven't read ' Ecoscience: Population, Resources, Environment', which was written by the Director of the Office of Science and Technology Policy office (and appointed by the President). There lies the problem, people don't see the harm in what is going on if you don't have anything to hide. They may be right... history doesn't think so. I spent 10 years with the government... I don't use facebook, google, etc...
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Valhoon
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Re: Win10 Concensus?
2015/10/06 08:21:38
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 don't take it as a personal attack folks, just a funny.
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yogibear1234
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Re: Win10 Concensus?
2015/10/06 09:29:44
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Conspiracy doesn't have anything to do it. Some people can see the dangers and some can't. It's that simple.
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Valhoon
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Re: Win10 Concensus?
2015/10/06 13:08:02
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this thread is wildly off topic.. It's a discussion of pros vs cons of windows 10 and the issues that follow it. Not if data is collected. Guess what. Everything collects data. The very way the internet works means all data is recorded in some way. Even this forum keeps a log of everyone's IP when they log in. Microsoft and Google uses it as analytical data. No one is sitting there reading every little thing you type or do. Sure certain things are flagged but if that leads to lives being saved, by all means they can keep a log of my porn habits. Not to mention your ISP could see your web traffic if they were interested. Same way phone companies have info of incoming and outgoing phone calls, and texts. If you are the owner of the account you can request those transcripts.
post edited by Valhoon - 2015/10/06 13:12:19
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agent8
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Re: Win10 Concensus?
2015/10/06 13:58:29
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Valhoon
this thread is wildly off topic.. It's a discussion of pros vs cons of windows 10 and the issues that follow it. Not if data is collected. Guess what. Everything collects data. The very way the internet works means all data is recorded in some way. Even this forum keeps a log of everyone's IP when they log in. Microsoft and Google uses it as analytical data. No one is sitting there reading every little thing you type or do. Sure certain things are flagged but if that leads to lives being saved, by all means they can keep a log of my porn habits. Not to mention your ISP could see your web traffic if they were interested. Same way phone companies have info of incoming and outgoing phone calls, and texts. If you are the owner of the account you can request those transcripts.
Data collection is a con.... and my phone company's info on me is at most when I get a call received and when I make a call and to whom I make a call too. If they could do more than that, illegal telemarketing scams would have been stopped a long time ago. I've been in my central office since I work there. All the data that comes and goes out there, if it is being monitored, it's done by the government or some other entity unless there is a complaint or dmca stink big enough to merit the attention, which I can tell you, takes A LOT. (I could go off on that but I won't) Texts, sure, that's easy. And a simple vpn does away with a sniffing ISP. I guess my point is that regardless of what other entities can or can not monitor is really a moot point. When an operating system does it, that's were I draw a line and that's why it sucks. Even if I am not doing anything wrong, I don't want to be monitored on my computer or sold stuff inside my start menu or via a pop-up or have a product or file not run because an operating system deems it unfit. So yeah, my consensus is that Windows 10 SUCKS.
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Valhoon
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Re: Win10 Concensus?
2015/10/06 14:26:28
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agent8
I guess my point is that regardless of what other entities can or can not monitor is really a moot point. When an operating system does it, that's were I draw a line and that's why it sucks. Even if I am not doing anything wrong, I don't want to be monitored on my computer or sold stuff inside my start menu or via a pop-up or have a product or file not run because an operating system deems it unfit. So yeah, my consensus is that Windows 10 SUCKS.
I can see that point and somewhat agree with you. Certain abandonware that someone may be interested in playing with could be blocked by the OS. Which if that's the case it's probably too old to run natively on the OS to begin with and you'd then have to VM it. But from my experience dealing with Win10 thus far has been satisfactory. But each his own own right?
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bcavnaugh
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Re: Win10 Concensus?
2015/10/06 17:27:35
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I installed WinTen x64 Pro on my R4 today.
So far only Commander will not work so it is hard to see if my CPU Pump and Temperatures are ok.
I thought I might as well have at least one WinTen Computer in the house.
So far I would not update any of my other computers, at lest at this time.
I like it much better than WinEight so I can put WinEight behind me now and move on as we all did with Window ME.
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Valhoon
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Re: Win10 Concensus?
2015/10/06 17:42:20
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bcavnaugh
I installed WinTen x64 Pro on my R4 today.
So far only Commander will not work so it is hard to see if my CPU Pump and Temperatures are ok.
I thought I might as well have at least one WinTen Computer in the house.
So far I would not update any of my other computers, at lest at this time.
I like it much better than WinEight so I can put WinEight behind me now and move on as we all did with Window ME.
Ain't that the dang truth lol. At it's core it's very similar to 8 but without the forced bull (Deleted for Masked Foul Language) UI and "application" bit. Dangnabit Microsoft, my PC is not a mobile phone. Stahp.
post edited by XrayMan - 2015/10/06 20:10:19
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agent8
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Re: Win10 Concensus?
2015/10/06 18:33:13
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Yeah, I figured at least one of my computers needs 10 so I can be familiar enough to fix other peoples issues. Or fake it enough anyway. When I do builds, I try to talk people into 7 which most people already want anyway.
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Zuhl3156
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Re: Win10 Concensus?
2015/10/07 04:38:31
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Did anyone else notice that Abby on NCIS was using Windows 10 on her lab computer last night? If Abby likes it then it must be good, right? Now there's a 'pro' for you. I wonder how much Microsoft paid for plugging their new OS into the show.
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bcavnaugh
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Re: Win10 Concensus?
2015/10/07 05:27:30
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Zuhl3156
Did anyone else notice that Abby on NCIS was using Windows 10 on her lab computer last night? If Abby likes it then it must be good, right? Now there's a 'pro' for you. I wonder how much Microsoft paid for plugging their new OS into the show.
"If Abby likes it then it must be good, right?" OK, I am Really Sorry but after that comment I can no longer believe you have what it takes. 
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