therealbigsteve
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I'm getting a GTX 960 SSC soon and I was wondering if adding my old GTX 470 for physx would be worth it?
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HeavyHemi
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Re: Thinking about adding a physx card....
2015/08/26 16:07:19
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therealbigsteve
I'm getting a GTX 960 SSC soon and I was wondering if adding my old GTX 470 for physx would be worth it?
It depends. If you're not playing any games that use GPU accelerated PhysX, then no.  If you are, then it is subjective. You will see some decent gains in games such as the Batman series, Borderlands 2 and the Pre-quel. Mafia II, the Metro Series etc. What I mean by subjective is whether or not the performance gain is worth the extra usage in power. Most of the time the GPU is going to be sitting there doing nothing but wasting a few watts. My advice would be to give it a shot and see if the gains are worth it for you.
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bsmegreg
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Re: Thinking about adding a physx card....
2015/08/26 16:22:49
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Its hard to say but one thing you can do is play with just the 960 for a day and then put it in the 470 and see if there is an improvement. I would say there would not be as the memory speeds are so drastically different and its already been discussed that the 900 series handles itself fairly well. If it was a 750ti then you would probably get a boost in games, but the 470 is a snail compared to the 960 and would probably just slow things down. This is all speculation so if you wanna be sure then feel free to test it out sometime and let us know what you find.
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Zuhl3156
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Re: Thinking about adding a physx card....
2015/08/26 16:30:48
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Very often an older card like a GTX-470 will hold back performance since the 960 will always be waiting for the slower card to process its information.
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agent8
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Re: Thinking about adding a physx card....
2015/08/26 17:22:05
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Zuhl3156
Very often an older card like a GTX-470 will hold back performance since the 960 will always be waiting for the slower card to process its information.
This. I have a 970 on the way with a 570 gtx just sitting around. I did the same research and found that it will more than likely hinder performance more than anything.
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HeavyHemi
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Re: Thinking about adding a physx card....
2015/08/26 21:15:13
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☄ Helpfulby therealbigsteve 2015/08/27 11:17:11
Seriously, it is hard not to get annoyed with the continual disinformation regarding dedicated PhysX GPU's. Not a thing said about the 470 or the 570 was accurate. I've run both and a GTX 580 with SLI TITANS. The gain was significant in titles that make heavy use of PhysX. For example, using the GTX 470 the gain was nearly identical to the overclocked (1172mhz) GTX 650Ti I'm using now. In Batman Origins for example, at 1920 X 1080 with every setting maxed I go from averaging just over 60 FPS to averaging over 90 FPS and and min frame rate stays over 60 FPS. That folks is smooth sailing. Without the PhysX GPU, I was dropping into the lower 50 FPS. The GTX 580 was slightly better. However, running 3 full sized GPU's in a Antec 900 well, it was a bit crowded.  Point being, not a one of the GPU's 470 on up, is going to hinder your performance in PhysX games. You will see a performance increase. Whether or not it is worth it, is your call.
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Re: Thinking about adding a physx card....
2015/08/26 21:37:47
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I guess I will have to do my own tests and see and maybe keep my 570 after all... 
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Zuhl3156
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Re: Thinking about adding a physx card....
2015/08/27 03:01:22
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HeavyHemi
Seriously, it is hard not to get annoyed with the continual disinformation regarding dedicated PhysX GPU's. Not a thing said about the 470 or the 570 was accurate. I've run both and a GTX 580 with SLI TITANS. The gain was significant in titles that make heavy use of PhysX. For example, using the GTX 470 the gain was nearly identical to the overclocked (1172mhz) GTX 650Ti I'm using now. In Batman Origins for example, at 1920 X 1080 with every setting maxed I go from averaging just over 60 FPS to averaging over 90 FPS and and min frame rate stays over 60 FPS. That folks is smooth sailing. Without the PhysX GPU, I was dropping into the lower 50 FPS. The GTX 580 was slightly better. However, running 3 full sized GPU's in a Antec 900 well, it was a bit crowded.
Point being, not a one of the GPU's 470 on up, is going to hinder your performance in PhysX games. You will see a performance increase. Whether or not it is worth it, is your call.
IDK, I guess results will vary but using my GTX-570 as a dedicated PhysX card slowed my GTX-680 giving me lower benchmark scores and no noticeable change in games.
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bsmegreg
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Re: Thinking about adding a physx card....
2015/08/27 04:16:15
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I think it depends how many PCI lanes you have among other things. If the Physics card is going to make your primary card run at x8 then you probably lost any improvment you would of gotten. I'm sure there's a lot of other things that contribute too, like the game being played and/or drivers etc.
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HeavyHemi
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Re: Thinking about adding a physx card....
2015/08/27 08:19:23
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☄ Helpfulby therealbigsteve 2015/08/27 11:16:27
Zuhl3156
HeavyHemi
Seriously, it is hard not to get annoyed with the continual disinformation regarding dedicated PhysX GPU's. Not a thing said about the 470 or the 570 was accurate. I've run both and a GTX 580 with SLI TITANS. The gain was significant in titles that make heavy use of PhysX. For example, using the GTX 470 the gain was nearly identical to the overclocked (1172mhz) GTX 650Ti I'm using now. In Batman Origins for example, at 1920 X 1080 with every setting maxed I go from averaging just over 60 FPS to averaging over 90 FPS and and min frame rate stays over 60 FPS. That folks is smooth sailing. Without the PhysX GPU, I was dropping into the lower 50 FPS. The GTX 580 was slightly better. However, running 3 full sized GPU's in a Antec 900 well, it was a bit crowded.
Point being, not a one of the GPU's 470 on up, is going to hinder your performance in PhysX games. You will see a performance increase. Whether or not it is worth it, is your call.
IDK, I guess results will vary but using my GTX-570 as a dedicated PhysX card slowed my GTX-680 giving me lower benchmark scores and no noticeable change in games.
Indeed, in games and benches that do not use GPU PhysX you will see no change in performance. Unless you had a configuration issue, using a GTX 570 as a dedicated PhysX GPU would give you an increase.
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Zuhl3156
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Re: Thinking about adding a physx card....
2015/08/27 08:30:00
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IDK, I set the 570 as a dedicated PhysX board in the NVCPL but it didn't help me. I just decided to go SLI with my 680 boards and the same with my 980 boards. Maybe because the 'unified' drivers weren't mature at first launch of Kepler?
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HeavyHemi
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Re: Thinking about adding a physx card....
2015/08/27 08:31:14
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☄ Helpfulby therealbigsteve 2015/08/27 11:16:11
bsmegreg
I think it depends how many PCI lanes you have among other things. If the Physics card is going to make your primary card run at x8 then you probably lost any improvment you would of gotten. I'm sure there's a lot of other things that contribute too, like the game being played and/or drivers etc.
Have you actually ran a dedicated PhysX GPU? I've used them in various configurations for several years. There are results all over the the net showing that the difference between running x16 and x8 on the PCIe lanes is at most ~2%. Going by his MODSRIGS he was already running in SLI, his first slot for his X58 is going to be running at x16 using the standard configuration . Adding a PhysX GPU isn't going to impact that.
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HeavyHemi
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Re: Thinking about adding a physx card....
2015/08/27 08:34:01
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Zuhl3156
IDK, I set the 570 as a dedicated PhysX board in the NVCPL but it didn't help me. I just decided to go SLI with my 680 boards and the same with my 980 boards. Maybe because the 'unified' drivers weren't mature at first launch of Kepler?
Normally you just leave it on auto. There were one or two drivers that didn't support other model GPU's. Like the recent GTX 950 driver which would not install for any other model in your system as it only contained the inf information for the GTX 950. I don't know why Nvidia does that.
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Zuhl3156
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Re: Thinking about adding a physx card....
2015/08/27 08:49:07
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HeavyHemi
Normally you just leave it on auto. There were one or two drivers that didn't support other model GPU's. Like the recent GTX 950 driver which would not install for any other model in your system as it only contained the inf information for the GTX 950. I don't know why Nvidia does that.
I don't know either. I remember when you could SLI video boards from any manufacturer but not anymore. It seems that Zotac is the worse but IDK about others.
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therealbigsteve
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Re: Thinking about adding a physx card....
2015/08/27 11:15:17
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bsmegreg
I think it depends how many PCI lanes you have among other things. If the Physics card is going to make your primary card run at x8 then you probably lost any improvment you would of gotten. I'm sure there's a lot of other things that contribute too, like the game being played and/or drivers etc.
I have two 16x pci lanes since it's an X58 board so The GTX 960 AND the GTX 470 will be running at 16x. I'll test it out when I get the card and report back!!! Thanks for all your replies!!
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bsmegreg
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Re: Thinking about adding a physx card....
2015/08/27 11:27:41
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therealbigsteve
bsmegreg
I think it depends how many PCI lanes you have among other things. If the Physics card is going to make your primary card run at x8 then you probably lost any improvment you would of gotten. I'm sure there's a lot of other things that contribute too, like the game being played and/or drivers etc.
I have two 16x pci lanes since it's an X58 board so The GTX 960 AND the GTX 470 will be running at 16x. I'll test it out when I get the card and report back!!! Thanks for all your replies!!
Chances are your CPU doesn't support 32+ PCI lanes, so it will do x8, x8(16lanes) or x16, x8(24 lanes). x16, x16(32 lanes) is more modern (5th and 6th gen i7). I immagine you would only have 16 PCI lanes, as that's normal so you would end up at x8, x8 which would be a limiting factor. Theres only a few newer CPU's like the i7 5960X or i7 4930K that support 32+ PCI lanes. You can look yours up if you want to see what I was trying to say. EDIT: On your mods rigs it says you have an i7 950 which must have 32 lanes, so I guess your good. Im still stuck with 16 lanes on my 4790k though...
post edited by bsmegreg - 2015/08/27 11:33:55
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agent8
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Re: Thinking about adding a physx card....
2015/08/27 11:57:03
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So, I am using a 2500K, which I am assuming is only 16 lanes (8X 8X?) would it be worth it to test out? I am basing my original reply by this post http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/916373-pc/70261404 which is my exact scenario and almost all the replies say that it would slow the system down but mentions nothing about the cpu being used. I are corn-fused. 
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bsmegreg
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Re: Thinking about adding a physx card....
2015/08/27 12:38:40
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It does only have 16 lanes I was just saying that it's not good. You may still get some preformance out of it still. But a GPU working at working at x8 isn't doing 100%. But it's only a loss of 1-5%.
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Delfire
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Re: Thinking about adding a physx card....
2015/08/27 15:05:31
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This comparison benchmark from a few years ago took x16/x16 against x8/x8 in 1080p and 4k gaming scenarios and found negligible difference between them. So, assuming an added PhysX card helps at least a little, a better question would be - do you play a lot of PhysX-based games? And even if you do, are the added effects important to you? Mileage will vary for everyone I think. As for me, while PhysX is nice (Who doesn't want added performance/visuals), the added clutter/heat of an additional GPU is not worth the hassle since my main GPU is more than good enough right now.
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eduncan911
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Re: Thinking about adding a physx card....
2015/08/27 23:13:21
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☄ Helpfulby therealbigsteve 2015/08/28 11:55:40
Lots of guessing here and opinions. I actually did some extensive testing on this PhysX subject a few years ago... Especially since the OP said they wanted to sue a GTX 470 as PhysX. (I say, NOOO!!) http://forums.evga.com/UPDATED-Titan-as-Dedicated-PhysX-m2078139.aspx And you can see in the replies, others had the same results. Here's a teaser graph from that post (notice the GTX 460 I used in testing): 
post edited by eduncan911 - 2015/08/27 23:25:00
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HeavyHemi
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Re: Thinking about adding a physx card....
2015/08/28 12:01:07
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eduncan911
Lots of guessing here and opinions.
I actually did some extensive testing on this PhysX subject a few years ago... Especially since the OP said they wanted to sue a GTX 470 as PhysX. (I say, NOOO!!)
http://forums.evga.com/UPDATED-Titan-as-Dedicated-PhysX-m2078139.aspx
And you can see in the replies, others had the same results.
Here's a teaser graph from that post (notice the GTX 460 I used in testing):
Why would you say no, when your own results show about about a 10% increase in avg frame rates using a GTX 460 with a TITAN versus a single TITAN alone? He'd probably get a few more FPS using the GTX 470. Granted, the extra power usage and heat in the case is a draw back, but that's a preference issue as is whether or not using one at all.
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HeavyHemi
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Re: Thinking about adding a physx card....
2015/08/28 12:03:57
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bsmegreg
therealbigsteve
bsmegreg
I think it depends how many PCI lanes you have among other things. If the Physics card is going to make your primary card run at x8 then you probably lost any improvment you would of gotten. I'm sure there's a lot of other things that contribute too, like the game being played and/or drivers etc.
I have two 16x pci lanes since it's an X58 board so The GTX 960 AND the GTX 470 will be running at 16x. I'll test it out when I get the card and report back!!! Thanks for all your replies!!
Chances are your CPU doesn't support 32+ PCI lanes, so it will do x8, x8(16lanes) or x16, x8(24 lanes). x16, x16(32 lanes) is more modern (5th and 6th gen i7). I immagine you would only have 16 PCI lanes, as that's normal so you would end up at x8, x8 which would be a limiting factor. Theres only a few newer CPU's like the i7 5960X or i7 4930K that support 32+ PCI lanes. You can look yours up if you want to see what I was trying to say.
EDIT: On your mods rigs it says you have an i7 950 which must have 32 lanes, so I guess your good. Im still stuck with 16 lanes on my 4790k though...
Just for for the sake of accuracy, the 1366 X58 platform has 40 PCIe lanes.
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Sajin
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Re: Thinking about adding a physx card....
2015/08/28 12:09:40
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Are you running windows 10?
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therealbigsteve
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Re: Thinking about adding a physx card....
2015/08/28 12:40:13
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Sajin
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Re: Thinking about adding a physx card....
2015/08/28 12:42:28
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☼ Best Answerby therealbigsteve 2015/08/29 14:17:22
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Re: Thinking about adding a physx card....
2015/08/28 12:49:49
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agent8
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Re: Thinking about adding a physx card....
2015/08/28 13:13:43
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Then I guess my 570 is off to ebay.
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HeavyHemi
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Re: Thinking about adding a physx card....
2015/08/28 13:55:29
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eduncan911
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Re: Thinking about adding a physx card....
2015/08/28 14:00:26
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HeavyHemi
eduncan911
Lots of guessing here and opinions.
I actually did some extensive testing on this PhysX subject a few years ago... Especially since the OP said they wanted to sue a GTX 470 as PhysX. (I say, NOOO!!)
http://forums.evga.com/UPDATED-Titan-as-Dedicated-PhysX-m2078139.aspx
And you can see in the replies, others had the same results.
Here's a teaser graph from that post (notice the GTX 460 I used in testing):
Why would you say no, when your own results show about about a 10% increase in avg frame rates using a GTX 460 with a TITAN versus a single TITAN alone? He'd probably get a few more FPS using the GTX 470. Granted, the extra power usage and heat in the case is a draw back, but that's a preference issue as is whether or not using one at all.
If you read the post (in great detail, I know a lot to read but it's important), you will see where I say the "Max/Min/Avg" is very mis leading. For example, the Single GPU + CPU gives the highest FPS. But, it's horrible in actual game play with several stutters, down to 15 FPS in several scenes, etc. To address your statement that the GTX 460 in my tests were better than a single GPU, read again - and look again at the actual chart above. The Purple line is of a high performance GPU with a GTX 460 as PhysX. You'll notice in the 2nd scene you get the worse FPS of all combinations (it's a very heavy PhysX scene). It actually drags down the overall performance of the system. In addition, the GPX 460 physX actually caused some of the highest usage of the primary GPU: read, more heat and power consumption (yet more graphs in that link). Gameplay is actually smoother, and higher FPS overall across all scenes with a single high performance GPU with PhysX enabled in - then actually using a dedicated low-end GPU as PhysX mixed with that same high-end GPU as the primary card. Not to mention the excessive heat, power and noise.
post edited by eduncan911 - 2015/08/28 14:12:19
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eduncan911
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Re: Thinking about adding a physx card....
2015/08/28 14:10:06
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HeavyHemi
Just for for the sake of accuracy, the 1366 X58 platform has 40 PCIe lanes.
Just for the sake of correcting the sake of accuracy, the X58 LGA1366 platform has 36 lanes - not 40 (40 lanes was introduced with the X79 chipset, and carries over into the X99 and C612 Xeon chipsets - per socket: a dual LGA2011 socket has 80 lanes of PCIe goodness). An easier way to explain it: LGA1366 = 36 lanes @ PCIe 2.0 LGA2011 = 40 lanes (all of them) @ PCIe 3.0 (with Ivy bridge-E and higher, older Sandy Bridge-E in LGA2011 had, "issues", with PCIe 3.0). bsmegreg
Chances are your CPU doesn't support 32+ PCI lanes, so it will do x8, x8(16lanes) or x16, x8(24 lanes). x16, x16(32 lanes) is more modern (5th and 6th gen i7). I immagine you would only have 16 PCI lanes, as that's normal so you would end up at x8, x8 which would be a limiting factor. Theres only a few newer CPU's like the i7 5960X or i7 4930K that support 32+ PCI lanes. You can look yours up if you want to see what I was trying to say.
EDIT: On your mods rigs it says you have an i7 950 which must have 32 lanes, so I guess your good. Im still stuck with 16 lanes on my 4790k though...
Yeah, there's a lot to correct in this post... It's close, but not accurate. LGA1366, aka Core i7 950 Quad Core, is 36 lanes as mentioned above. Period. All "consumer grade" lower end CPUs like the LGA1155, LGA1156, LGA1150 sockets are far less than 36 lanes. Frankly, I can't rattle off exactly the Intel chipset lanes allocated from the CPU structures as I they are too little for my setup and just didn't care about them; but, they are no where near the PCIe 2.0 36 native lanes that the X58 provides, and further away from PCIe 3.0 40x lanes in the LGA2011 socket chipsets (Ivy bridge-E and higher, that is - Sandy Bridge-E burned me, and my wallet).
post edited by eduncan911 - 2015/08/28 14:14:45
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