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Black Widow rebuild/restore thread. ('91 Foxie Stang).

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knightsilver
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Re: Black Widow rebuild/restore thread. ('91 Foxie Stang). 2015/05/29 20:07:13 (permalink)
Link
https://www.holley.com/products/superchargers/supercharger/parts/77-174FSB-1
 
Good ol Weiand.....
 
Not sure if you've have to upgrade your carb, rail, throttle body or injectors, or fuel reg....  
 
I really am out of the loop, this seems like a damn good price?
http://www.americanmuscle.com/coyote-crate-engine.html
 
But for budget builds, I'd look for a used vortech, other setups you'd have to have a carb setup or a innercooler... 
post edited by knightsilver - 2015/05/29 20:20:30
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Re: Black Widow rebuild/restore thread. ('91 Foxie Stang). 2015/05/29 20:24:32 (permalink)
bill1024
Why not keep an eye out for a used  Kenne Bell 1.5?
People upgrade to the newer ones and sell their old ones. If staying at 5# boost a KB is another option.
If wanting to go 8# or more the KB may not be the best option for a 5.0, heat soak can be a problem they say.
But a KB twin screw gives you full boost and torque at 2500RPM or so.
 
I'll keep an eye out and let you know if I see anything.


I didn't know these existed. I will only ever run 5# of boost. Unless I win the lottery but that's another story.
 
Also, I don't want to mess with an intercooler. It's the main reason I want a vortech v1 so badly.
post edited by Baltothewolf - 2015/05/29 20:26:09

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Re: Black Widow rebuild/restore thread. ('91 Foxie Stang). 2015/05/29 20:48:46 (permalink)
Kenne Bell's run hot, and IMO, over priced, too much upkeeep.
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Re: Black Widow rebuild/restore thread. ('91 Foxie Stang). 2015/05/30 00:41:59 (permalink)
I second the Vortech, or Paxton as I am running a Paxton NOVI2200 on my Mustang.

PD blowers are nice, but you really need a strong bottom end for those.  Centri blowers tend to be a bit nicer to your engine.
 
6200.00 for the Coyote is about an average price.   Another swap that has been going into Foxes (mainly for the dragstrip) is the 6.2 out of the Raptor.  

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Re: Black Widow rebuild/restore thread. ('91 Foxie Stang). 2015/05/30 11:21:19 (permalink)
Dukman
I second the Vortech, or Paxton as I am running a Paxton NOVI2200 on my Mustang.

PD blowers are nice, but you really need a strong bottom end for those.  Centri blowers tend to be a bit nicer to your engine.
 
6200.00 for the Coyote is about an average price.   Another swap that has been going into Foxes (mainly for the dragstrip) is the 6.2 out of the Raptor.  


Really, the 6.2? Interesting, that thing is a great engine for power potential and durability, but it is a boat anchor at near 600 lbs. The Coyote weighs a mere 430 lbs.

Now I want to see a 6.2L bored and stroked to 420 cu.in with twin turbos.....that would be a beast.

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Re: Black Widow rebuild/restore thread. ('91 Foxie Stang). 2015/05/30 11:45:35 (permalink)
I found 42lb bosh injectors along with a 90mm lighting MAF for 250$, worth it? The MAF is from a 4.6 though, can I convert it to work with the 5.0?
post edited by Baltothewolf - 2015/05/30 11:47:02

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Re: Black Widow rebuild/restore thread. ('91 Foxie Stang). 2015/05/30 11:48:16 (permalink)
No, the MAF from the 4.6 will not work.

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Re: Black Widow rebuild/restore thread. ('91 Foxie Stang). 2015/05/30 12:51:04 (permalink)
kaninja
Dukman
I second the Vortech, or Paxton as I am running a Paxton NOVI2200 on my Mustang.

PD blowers are nice, but you really need a strong bottom end for those.  Centri blowers tend to be a bit nicer to your engine.
 
6200.00 for the Coyote is about an average price.   Another swap that has been going into Foxes (mainly for the dragstrip) is the 6.2 out of the Raptor.  


Really, the 6.2? Interesting, that thing is a great engine for power potential and durability, but it is a boat anchor at near 600 lbs. The Coyote weighs a mere 430 lbs.

Now I want to see a 6.2L bored and stroked to 420 cu.in with twin turbos.....that would be a beast.



The few swaps that Ive seen have mostly been into dedicated drag cars.   The big advantage of the 6.2 is the gobs of torque it makes.  Combine that with the lightweight of the Fox platform and even in stock form the 6.2 can be nasty.   Also, the iron block 302 isn't exactly svelt.  It still comes in heavier than the Coyote.
 
One of the reasons why I abandoned the idea of using a 326 stroker in my car was the added weight over my modular.  I didn't want to go with the added weight of going back to a heavier block.  Im trying to lose weight with the car, not gain.  
 
Balto, like Bill1024 stated you'll need to tune for those  injectors.  Installing them while running a factory tune could end up with problems, most likely just poor performance and fuel economy.  But also possible fault codes as well.  Keep in mind that any change with air or fuel system will require tuning, as will certain exhaust mods. 
post edited by Dukman - 2015/05/30 12:55:12

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Re: Black Widow rebuild/restore thread. ('91 Foxie Stang). 2015/05/30 13:06:52 (permalink)
Thanks.  I've actually been around for awhile, but up till recently more lurker than anything. 
 
I'll look and see if I've got anything worth posting.  :D
 

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Re: Black Widow rebuild/restore thread. ('91 Foxie Stang). 2015/05/30 13:21:35 (permalink)
Hmm... Is it still worth it to get the MAF?

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Re: Black Widow rebuild/restore thread. ('91 Foxie Stang). 2015/05/30 13:27:40 (permalink)
A big plus 1 to Bill's suggestions. I still recommend AFR or Trick Flow heads over the GT40x but any will be a big improvement over the stock e7's. Also, do not bother with heads without switching to a better cam. I always recommend the TFS stage 1 cam....great cam for N/A and can work well with boost as well.

I would hold off on MAF until you are ready to get a tune.

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Re: Black Widow rebuild/restore thread. ('91 Foxie Stang). 2015/05/30 13:43:50 (permalink)
I don't care about keeping the inside of the engine stock. I have always wanted AFR heads. I think ill go this route instead of going blower. Later I'll go blower and get even more HP I guess.

Also remember, I'm keeping the car CA smog legal. So no crazy cams that wouldn't let me pass smog.
post edited by Baltothewolf - 2015/05/30 13:47:41

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Re: Black Widow rebuild/restore thread. ('91 Foxie Stang). 2015/05/30 14:19:40 (permalink)
Baltothewolf
I don't care about keeping the inside of the engine stock. I have always wanted AFR heads. I think ill go this route instead of going blower. Later I'll go blower and get even more HP I guess.

Also remember, I'm keeping the car CA smog legal. So no crazy cams that wouldn't let me pass smog.


I keep forgetting you are in CA. You may have to go with a E303 / Crane 2040 compucam. With a good tune a TFS will and has passed the sniffer, but no sure thing.

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Re: Black Widow rebuild/restore thread. ('91 Foxie Stang). 2015/05/30 15:00:24 (permalink)
Hmm... I don't want to spend all the time pulling the engine, modding it and putting it back in, just to find out that it won't pass smog because of the cam.

Also, I will be pulling the engine for this. It's got a couple things I need to fix, like the leaky oil pan/rear main seal. I almost want to go buy another known good engine and mod that one, then when ready drop it in and do a swappy swappy so there is almost no down time.
post edited by Baltothewolf - 2015/05/30 15:03:07

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Re: Black Widow rebuild/restore thread. ('91 Foxie Stang). 2015/05/30 15:08:47 (permalink)
Man I'll have to do a thread for when I build my engine... Looking good so far man... Also go ahead and pass on the MAF... Won't work... Take my word for and those over at Roush Perfirmance...

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Re: Black Widow rebuild/restore thread. ('91 Foxie Stang). 2015/05/30 15:26:42 (permalink)
Too bad the Coyote 5.0 couldn't just bolt to a FoxBox...
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Re: Black Widow rebuild/restore thread. ('91 Foxie Stang). 2015/05/30 15:32:45 (permalink)
knightsilver
Too bad the Coyote 5.0 couldn't just bolt to a FoxBox...


With an easy K-member swap it will....well there is a bit more to it but it is easy.

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Re: Black Widow rebuild/restore thread. ('91 Foxie Stang). 2015/05/30 15:35:06 (permalink)
Wasn't the FoxBox analong throttle?
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Re: Black Widow rebuild/restore thread. ('91 Foxie Stang). 2015/05/30 15:43:20 (permalink)
kaninja
knightsilver
Too bad the Coyote 5.0 couldn't just bolt to a FoxBox...


With an easy K-member swap it will....well there is a bit more to it but it is easy.
Yes sir... They actually do this often over at Roush Performance for people... I live about 2 minute walk from the Roush Performance and where they build the Roush stangs... They literally build them out of the shop and have a store front...

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Re: Black Widow rebuild/restore thread. ('91 Foxie Stang). 2015/05/30 16:05:18 (permalink)
Awesome motor, but I would rather run the 2014 5.8.  Better performance and it's 30k cheaper.  Actually, if I were to spend up to 30k on a motor, I would just build the snot out a Coyote. 
 
While we don't have any Coyote swaps here (yet), we do have one guy that swapped all the important parts from a 2003 Termi into an 88 Fox.    So it has motor, trans, IRS, and interior swapped over.  

The Coyote swap might be the cheapest and easiest way to the 400hp mark in the long run.  Plus the motor will run a lot cleaner and pass emissions easier.

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Re: Black Widow rebuild/restore thread. ('91 Foxie Stang). 2015/05/30 16:09:59 (permalink)
I think ill just pass on the entire deal. I don't think I'll need 42# for H/C/I anyway. 24lb are cheaper, and more readily available, and will probably be good for my application.

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Re: Black Widow rebuild/restore thread. ('91 Foxie Stang). 2015/05/30 17:01:04 (permalink)
bill1024
Baltothewolf
I think ill just pass on the entire deal. I don't think I'll need 42# for H/C/I anyway. 24lb are cheaper, and more readily available, and will probably be good for my application.

Yeah for now, then you can sell them to get the 42# when you buy the blower.
You can always keep the 19# and do a FMU, just get an A/F ratio gauge.
 
Save your money, take your time, make a plan. Keep an eye out for parts.
You're not saving money buying parts twice. That is if you're going for 400HP 24# are not enough.
Pennywise pound foolish.
You can do 24# get the meter setup for 24# trick the ECU, the stock cam is really not all that bad.
You can always go 1.7RR to add a little lift.
Start with the heads and a adj, fuel regulator, bump the pressure a little and see where you're at.
There are ways to do it, but you have to know your A/F ratio and timing, no knocking or pinging.
 
But it's up to you. Maybe go to the corral.net and get advice there from a Mustang site where there are NMRA racers and several tuners there who been down the road your going. This stuff has been done a million times
We here are trying to point you in the right direction, HP is not cheap.
Call your local pick N pulls and see what they have.
Cast iron GT40 3bar heads are a dime a dozen and when ported and polished they can make over 300 whp.
 
Take your time and keep looking.
 
 


I completely agree. And thanks for the solid advice. I might as well take care of cosmetics like the drooping headliner, disgusting carpet and half peeling paint haha. I can spend little and make the car look half decent, then save for the big items.

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Re: Black Widow rebuild/restore thread. ('91 Foxie Stang). 2015/05/30 17:35:04 (permalink)
Baltothewolf I completely agree. And thanks for the solid advice. I might as well take care of cosmetics like the drooping headliner, disgusting carpet and half peeling paint haha. I can spend little and make the car look half decent, then save for the big items.

Also keep in mind, those Foxes don't weigh all that much, so it doesn't take much to make them go.  I think the plan of action you mentioned is a good one.   Keep the existing engine tuned up and running decent and it should be more than enough until your ready to take the next step for horsepower.   
 
bill1024
Better performance, well Connie Kallita was running that motor in NHRA top fuel spinning it to 9,000 RPM
Not sure how many thousands of HP it was making, I bet well over 2 thousand. Today with a 514 they make 8-10 thousand HP.
That motor NA can produce 800HP. I going to dig until I get a HP number with that motor and top fuel.
 
Anyone running top fuel through a Coyote? If so how much HP?
 
Just think going to a local car show or cruise in with that 427 cammer under the hood with a blower running 30 lbs of boost on E-85
 

 
He was getting gobs of power of the that motor.  But it was a long ways from factory or even being streetable.  I was thinking a bit more conservative.  Something that can be driven daily and does not require special fuel or a teardown every run.   
 
Have you seen this?  http://www.autoblog.com/photos/sema-2009-1970-trans-cammer-mustang/
 
So far I have not heard of anyone running an alky or nitro Coyote.  But Im sure there are some out there running E85. 
post edited by Dukman - 2015/05/30 18:10:25

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Re: Black Widow rebuild/restore thread. ('91 Foxie Stang). 2015/05/30 18:06:41 (permalink)
No problem at all! This thread is a repair /rebuild thread, but who says it can't be a talk car thread too?

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Re: Black Widow rebuild/restore thread. ('91 Foxie Stang). 2015/05/30 22:28:41 (permalink)
So I found a stock 5.0 engine with 98k miles for 500$. I think I'm gonna pick it up and just mod that one, and when it's ready drop it in mine. It will be 100k more fresh, and I won't have any downtime on the Mustang. Also my brother is paying for it. Doesn't get any better than free.

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Re: Black Widow rebuild/restore thread. ('91 Foxie Stang). 2015/05/31 00:40:46 (permalink)
What year is it?

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Re: Black Widow rebuild/restore thread. ('91 Foxie Stang). 2015/05/31 00:59:42 (permalink)
kaninja
What year is it?

It's from a '90 LX. Only one year older than my engine, same trim.

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Re: Black Widow rebuild/restore thread. ('91 Foxie Stang). 2015/06/01 18:22:25 (permalink)
Just read through this thread and good to see a fellow fox body stang owner doing his car up. I have had 3 diff. fox bodys and sold 2 of them and just have my coupe with vortech etc on it. They are fun cars and can find tons of parts for them. I am on corral.net also and you can buy some good used parts over there.
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Re: Black Widow rebuild/restore thread. ('91 Foxie Stang). 2015/06/26 17:44:14 (permalink)
Uhg. I can't find a freaking engine!! There is one guy that is offering me a 306 with ported E7 heads and a custom cam, fuel injectors, fuel pump, MAF and a tune + installation for 2,000, but I feel that's a little steep. He guarantees his work and promises minimum 300 rwhp. All I will need to do is toss a blower on it in a couple years and I will be at my 430rwhp 450 at the crank goal. It's really making me think about it, but some input would be highly appreciated!

Oh, the engine only has 1500 miles on it.
post edited by Baltothewolf - 2015/06/26 17:45:15

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Re: Black Widow rebuild/restore thread. ('91 Foxie Stang). 2015/06/26 17:59:37 (permalink)
Does he have a dyno sheet? If not I highly doubt a minimum 300rwhp. $2000 is steep.
Why not just yank and do a build up of your own block? You already have the block. Maybe get yourself a 331 cu.in. full stroker kit.

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