nateman_doo
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Why lap a CPU... when you can machine it?!  left is machined... right is normal.
post edited by nateman_doo - 2015/04/28 20:49:38
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the_Scarlet_one
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Re: Probably the craziest thing I have done...
2015/04/28 20:56:16
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You know my address for the one on the right.... ;-).
It looks good. How many passes total to get it so close?
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AnonymousGuy
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Re: Probably the craziest thing I have done...
2015/04/28 21:03:33
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Noyce. What's the total thickness @ the corner with the hole? Should be 3.606mm. It's like extreme lapping. Love it.
post edited by AnonymousGuy - 2015/04/28 21:06:49
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hutt132
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Re: Probably the craziest thing I have done...
2015/04/28 21:40:24
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Sweet! Do you have before and after temps?
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seta8967
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Re: Probably the craziest thing I have done...
2015/04/29 01:34:31
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Man why didnt i thibk of that...
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zophar
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Re: Probably the craziest thing I have done...
2015/04/29 03:06:47
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That's cool. How long did it take to get that far down?
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nateman_doo
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Re: Probably the craziest thing I have done...
2015/04/29 04:49:07
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the DOC was about 0.018" (depth of cut)
final pass 0.001"
total taken off 0.06"
quick lap to 400 grit.
I used a very small end mill <0.125" to ensure that if anything broke, it would be the bit and not the CPU.
Took about 30-45 minutes maybe? Took about 2 hours in total between setting up the machine, generating some tool paths and saying a few prayers. I took some VERY conservative passes since its not advisable to cut copper bone dry. you see in the video how it gets stringy. Its a gummy metal and tends to stick in the cutting bit.
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nateman_doo
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Re: Probably the craziest thing I have done...
2015/04/29 06:02:10
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AnonymousGuy
Noyce. What's the total thickness @ the corner with the hole? Should be 3.606mm.
It's like extreme lapping. Love it.
I zero'd the PCB @ 0.000"  After all was said and done:  The thickness of the overall IHS is now 0.064" thick. 1.62mm
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nateman_doo
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Re: Probably the craziest thing I have done...
2015/04/29 08:20:26
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AnonymousGuy
Noyce. What's the total thickness @ the corner with the hole? Should be 3.606mm.
It's like extreme lapping. Love it.
One thing I would do if I were you... Since I have no idea what that hole's function is... I would suggest getting some sort of syringe and fill it with alcohol. Then I would squirt it into that hole with some force and see if any copper debris comes out. It should be minimal since the air was blasted right over the hole, but I would do something to ensure there is not copper in that hole. I am just worried it may short out something in there. I am hoping the die is sealed and copper fragments wont affect it. Anyway it will be out in the mail shortly. Its interesting how much lighter the CPU got.
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the_Scarlet_one
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Re: Probably the craziest thing I have done...
2015/04/29 08:24:37
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I would think the hole is for pressure, since heat would build pressure over an extended period of time if the entire ihs was sealed. On all of the ihs' I have removed, I haven't seen a full seal where the epoxy sets, but if it were to seal, maybe it could build minute amounts of pressure over time. I have no idea, just a guess honestly.
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AnonymousGuy
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Re: Probably the craziest thing I have done...
2015/04/29 10:09:25
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Scarlet-Tech
I would think the hole is for pressure, since heat would build pressure over an extended period of time if the entire ihs was sealed. On all of the ihs' I have removed, I haven't seen a full seal where the epoxy sets, but if it were to seal, maybe it could build minute amounts of pressure over time. I have no idea, just a guess honestly.
I think the heatsink + thermal paste pretty much plugs it up when its installed. It's probably a fiducial marker, but I don't know why they would make it through hole and not just a partial hole like other cpu's do.
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AnonymousGuy
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Re: Probably the craziest thing I have done...
2015/04/29 10:18:57
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nateman_doo
AnonymousGuy
Noyce. What's the total thickness @ the corner with the hole? Should be 3.606mm.
It's like extreme lapping. Love it.
One thing I would do if I were you...
Since I have no idea what that hole's function is... I would suggest getting some sort of syringe and fill it with alcohol. Then I would squirt it into that hole with some force and see if any copper debris comes out. It should be minimal since the air was blasted right over the hole, but I would do something to ensure there is not copper in that hole. I am just worried it may short out something in there. I am hoping the die is sealed and copper fragments wont affect it.
Anyway it will be out in the mail shortly. Its interesting how much lighter the CPU got.
If I fill it with alcohol then I'd be worried the alcohol won't completely dry with so little air exposure. There's surface mount capacitors on top of the PCB under the IHS that could short out ( http://cdn2.wccftech.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/Intel-Haswell-E-Core-i7-5960X-De-lid-635x357.jpg), but the hole is small enough that I doubt copper could get through the whole and migrate over there. You could maybe drill .4mm depth holes in the other corners to increase air exposure. I'd probably still stick it in a 180F oven to make sure it dries out.
post edited by AnonymousGuy - 2015/04/29 10:22:04
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nateman_doo
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Re: Probably the craziest thing I have done...
2015/04/29 13:48:29
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copper chips touching surface mount caps would be a problem. Perhaps using acetone? It will dry much faster. the copper shavings from a bit that small can be powder and easily fit in that hole. I can only suggest what to do. Its in your hands on the 1st.
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TECH_DaveB
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Re: Probably the craziest thing I have done...
2015/04/29 14:36:41
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That is just awesome, I love it.
Concern, has this dropped enough thickness that the HS/WB wont get a good contact as the IHS is now below the retention bracket on the socket? I know those can be removed as well, just asking.
Either way, that's hella cool.
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AnonymousGuy
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Re: Probably the craziest thing I have done...
2015/04/29 14:38:58
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The retention mechanism definitely has to go away and I'm hoping the waterblock will be able to apply enough clamping force to make contact with all the pins. I'm going to shim the springs of the waterblock bracket with washers to increase the spring pressure a bit.
It might not work which is why we're starting with the $300 CPU instead of the $1000 one on the right.
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nateman_doo
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Re: Probably the craziest thing I have done...
2015/04/29 16:36:05
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nateman_doo
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Re: Probably the craziest thing I have done...
2015/04/29 17:27:32
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So here is some of the heavier chips that came off, and a ruler for scale:  Trust me when i say, there could be copper in that hole.
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AnonymousGuy
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Re: Probably the craziest thing I have done...
2015/04/29 18:32:22
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I'm thinking we should open up the corners of the IHS like so:  Then there's plenty of access to blow air or solvent through to clean it out. You'd have to cut to the top of the IHS wings and then cut down another .1034mm to make it through the IHS thickness.
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awalleyeguy
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Re: Probably the craziest thing I have done...
2015/04/29 19:24:17
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The hole is drilled in the top to let gases escape when they "glue" the IHS to the chip. Intel has said that it is fine if thermal paste (including conductive) get's into the hole. It won't hurt the chip or cause it to short circuit.
If you have delided a CPU you will see it would almost be impossible for anything to be shorted from something getting in the hole.
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vsg28
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Re: Probably the craziest thing I have done...
2015/04/30 06:20:49
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The hole is to help relieve pressure from having soldered the IHS on to the die, especially when the epoxy is curing. It isn't present on the mainstream chips which use paste.
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Tweaked
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Re: Probably the craziest thing I have done...
2015/04/30 09:57:17
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I think that deserves a BR.
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zophar
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Re: Probably the craziest thing I have done...
2015/04/30 16:00:33
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Was this a brand new chip that had never been used? Just curious because it would have been cool to have a base line temp stock, and then with a OC of like 4.5GHz before and after to see how temps were affected by the machining. It's probably not a huge margin but it's always nice to see the change.
And Tweaked I think your right. It definitely deserves a BR.
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AnonymousGuy
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Re: Probably the craziest thing I have done...
2015/04/30 16:50:46
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What's a BR
And I have baseline temps logged for several benchmark programs for both chips when over clocked. We removed 75% of the IHS thickness so I'm expecting a huge thermal improvement.
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zophar
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Re: Probably the craziest thing I have done...
2015/04/30 17:33:28
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AnonymousGuy
What's a BR
And I have baseline temps logged for several benchmark programs for both chips when over clocked. We removed 75% of the IHS thickness so I'm expecting a huge thermal improvement.
BR is a blue ribbon. You get them for use of your affiliate code, building systems in Mods Rigs section, and very detailed posts helping forum members solve issues. And some other times when people like nateman do crazy things like this.
post edited by zophar - 2015/04/30 17:36:29
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AnonymousGuy
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Re: Probably the craziest thing I have done...
2015/05/01 20:44:41
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Probably should make a spinoff thread, but eh what the hell just dump it all here: Part received from Nateman:  Here's what some of the metal shavings I extracted from under the heatspreader looked like super close up. I'm not concerned about these creating shorts:  Checking overall flatness with a straightedge intended for the purpose. The center is a bit low, but not by much. The lighting exaggerates it.   Here's a video of checking the IHS thickness. This is a Mitutoyo digital micrometer, so it's very accurate. We were aiming for 3.6062mm +/- .05mm since this is the variation of the regular IHS thickness. All measurements were within this spec. Some were as low as 3.57mm probably due to the lapping. Hand lapping also isn't going to be as precise as machine lapping, so that can also create some spread in the measurements. Still plenty good enough: Total material removed was ~1.567mm thick. Thermal transfer will be improved by 2.80x since the total thickness of material above the die (solder + copper) has changed from 2.4352mm to .8682mm. Heat transfer is linear based on thickness so 2.4352/.8682 = 2.80. This should be a pretty huge difference in temperatures. I don't know if I'll get around to installing it this weekend. With my desktop being watercooled it's not a 30 minute job to swap CPUs out. Here's a sample of some of the baseline temperature measurements:  I also have 15 min runs for Intel XTU and Prime95 small FFT.
post edited by AnonymousGuy - 2015/05/01 20:53:28
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zophar
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Re: Probably the craziest thing I have done...
2015/05/02 08:41:02
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I was watching you video of you mic'ing the CPU and started hearing a random clicking. I thought for a minute I had something in a fan. Then I realized my headphones were on and it was your mic in the video lol. I'm pretty interested to see the results.
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AnonymousGuy
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Re: Probably the craziest thing I have done...
2015/05/02 23:34:40
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Results aren't good. Removed the retention mechanism from the mobo, shimmed the springs with 3 washers so there was a lot of clamping force, put everything back together. It works fine, but temperatures are crappy at the same settings from before (4.6 Ghz 1.325V). AIDA64 FPU went from 80C above to 93C now and craps out. I tried again with 5 washers for even more spring pressure (I could barely get the thumb nuts started), and same result.
Not sure what's going on. Could be no retention mechanism is letting the entire chip deform, could be the low spot in the middle causing the paste to not spread right (seemed to spread ok after looking at it from the first attempt). Could be 400 grit isn't smooth enough and is creating pockets of thermal paste. I need to extract the chip out again and take measurements to see if its permanently deforming the chip.
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MrImSoGood
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Re: Probably the craziest thing I have done...
2015/05/03 08:49:50
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AnonymousGuy
Results aren't good. Removed the retention mechanism from the mobo, shimmed the springs with 3 washers so there was a lot of clamping force, put everything back together. It works fine, but temperatures are crappy at the same settings from before (4.6 Ghz 1.325V). AIDA64 FPU went from 80C above to 93C now and craps out. I tried again with 5 washers for even more spring pressure (I could barely get the thumb nuts started), and same result.
Not sure what's going on. Could be no retention mechanism is letting the entire chip deform, could be the low spot in the middle causing the paste to not spread right (seemed to spread ok after looking at it from the first attempt). Could be 400 grit isn't smooth enough and is creating pockets of thermal paste. I need to extract the chip out again and take measurements to see if its permanently deforming the chip.
I got a feeling it's no having a retention mechanism that's causing your temp issues
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notfordman
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Re: Probably the craziest thing I have done...
2015/05/03 13:23:29
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Would the reduction of the metal, cause a less than optimal heat transfer from the CPU? That's interesting, quite the opposite of what I expected. Then again I'm no lehpron.lol
post edited by notfordman - 2015/05/05 03:23:57
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AnonymousGuy
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Re: Probably the craziest thing I have done...
2015/05/03 13:38:52
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notfordman
Would the reduction of the metal, cause a less than optimal heat transfer from the CPU? That's interesting, quite the opposite of what I expected. Then again I'm no lephron.lol
No, the equation for heat conduction through something is dependent on the total amount of material. Here's some pics I took of the thermal paste spread. The regular CPU is the 5960X I was using before I swapped in the trimmed down 5820K. To me the application looks pretty good, paste is a bit thicker overall though and you can see the 5960X is convex (higher in the center).    Here's what the flatness of a stock 5960X looks like: 
post edited by AnonymousGuy - 2015/05/03 13:46:12
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