Holo

bcavnaugh

candle_86

Grey_Beard
Computers are my hobby, so I am self taught. I am run a business but the IT guys always listen to my opinion. I have an advanced degree but not in IT. I help more people in my organization with IT than almost any other single area. IT is an integral part of our business model. Without it, we would not be as effective as we are. The issues I have is that many in IT do not know what their end users do. Help desk in particular. Even help desk needs to know what the business is. Unfortunately many on both sides do not want to gain an understanding of the other. Those that do are the ones who can make large pay checks. This is the true value add.

well most companies treat IT like crap, we don't make them a profit they can see, only spend money. I see that time and again, the IT budget is cut, the IT staff is cut, then people start complaining about their equipment failing ect, and then they yell at IT for it. Its a rare thing when the business side gives a damn about the IT people keeping their systems running so they can make money.

For an Internal IT within a company they should not be looking for a profit Period.
They are now looking only at profit and could care less about the end user, the mission of the end user.
It is called the "Death of the IT", and this is what is causing IT such a large turn around and the biggest loss the Experts.
Like lets pay ONE IT Tech a great Salary and can get the task in hand done in a timely manner to Two or Three Hourly IT Techs that are clueless about what they are doing and takes 200 or 300 times longer to complete the same task.
They should be providing the Company the support so that the End Users can do their job and not spend days at a time down because their computer's hard drive is dead. This is where IT has gone Wrong and why End Users Do Not Like IT in Large Companies.

IT can be measured in terms of profit, or rather cost savings. We prevent downtime, and further the technological vision of the company. Who do you think implements the tools departments utilize to generate profit? Showing cost savings isn't hard. Sure IT is usually seen as a necessary evil or an insurance policy, but if you know what you're doing you can be seen as a solutions provider internally and a cost savings source.
 
Any projects I work on, I try to look at how this will save money, and how quickly will we generate a return on our investment. I also dig my hands in anything I can. Last project I worked on saved on average about 10k a year in labor costs by automating reports that were previously manual. Implemented automated system imaging, so imaging a PC takes 1/3 of what it took previously. That's a labor savings of 2/3 that can now be allocated (my time) to another project production related.
 

bcavnaugh

Holo

bcavnaugh

candle_86

Grey_Beard
Computers are my hobby, so I am self taught. I am run a business but the IT guys always listen to my opinion. I have an advanced degree but not in IT. I help more people in my organization with IT than almost any other single area. IT is an integral part of our business model. Without it, we would not be as effective as we are. The issues I have is that many in IT do not know what their end users do. Help desk in particular. Even help desk needs to know what the business is. Unfortunately many on both sides do not want to gain an understanding of the other. Those that do are the ones who can make large pay checks. This is the true value add.

well most companies treat IT like crap, we don't make them a profit they can see, only spend money. I see that time and again, the IT budget is cut, the IT staff is cut, then people start complaining about their equipment failing ect, and then they yell at IT for it. Its a rare thing when the business side gives a damn about the IT people keeping their systems running so they can make money.

For an Internal IT within a company they should not be looking for a profit Period.
They are now looking only at profit and could care less about the end user, the mission of the end user.
It is called the "Death of the IT", and this is what is causing IT such a large turn around and the biggest loss the Experts.
Like lets pay ONE IT Tech a great Salary and can get the task in hand done in a timely manner to Two or Three Hourly IT Techs that are clueless about what they are doing and takes 200 or 300 times longer to complete the same task.
They should be providing the Company the support so that the End Users can do their job and not spend days at a time down because their computer's hard drive is dead. This is where IT has gone Wrong and why End Users Do Not Like IT in Large Companies.

IT can be measured in terms of profit, or rather cost savings. We prevent downtime, and further the technological vision of the company. Who do you think implements the tools departments utilize to generate profit? Showing cost savings isn't hard. Sure IT is usually seen as a necessary evil or an insurance policy, but if you know what you're doing you can be seen as a solutions provider internally and a cost savings source.
 
Any projects I work on, I try to look at how this will save money, and how quickly will we generate a return on our investment. I also dig my hands in anything I can. Last project I worked on saved on average about 10k a year in labor costs by automating reports that were previously manual. Implemented automated system imaging, so imaging a PC takes 1/3 of what it took previously. That's a labor savings of 2/3 that can now be allocated (my time) to another project production related.
 

Yes, but that was in the passed. Today IT wants to see Real Cash Profits.
We used to be a Cost Savings. I seen only Greed on IT Side now.
The Greed is the paying of all the upper level and mid level management.
They have turned into a organization of Chiefs and Dying out Indians.
All the Chiefs want to do is move up the Management Ladder now.
Sorry I don't care for Management it is just how I see them now.
10 Years Ago it was Not like this Management Did Care about the workers, now all they care about is pleasing their manager.

Punchy
I can see this argument going on indefinitely - but I would point out that there are a lot of different meanings to "IT", and also that bcavnaugh DOES have decades of experience there.
 
My perspective is as an engineer relying on IT folks for hardware repair and corporate networking setup, at a large company.  Over the 15 years there, the "IT department" got smaller and smaller, with more and more of the jobs that didn't require "hands on" moving offshore.  The best networking guys stayed and became more of a network planning group, with the actual implementation going to contractors and temps.  The hardware support guys (ones that fix broken laptops etc) went from 1-2 dedicated per building to one per 2 buildings.  The help desk jobs all went to India.
 
My sister-in-law worked at a large computer company for 25+ years, and her last job was L2 phone support for specific customers.  That job was moved to Mexico, where it was cheaper to have 2 less efficient workers replace her, but only after she was forced to train them.
 
As was previously pointed out, if you have the means to get it, an engineering degree is a big plus long-term.

cisco0623
OP, is that statistic the entire USA? It really depends on region. Here in NYC any help desk person should be pulling in $50k to start, but its NYC. I know out in the mid west people do the same for $35k tops with year of exp. 
 
Also it depends on the sector: banking, medical, law, etc. They all have different pay scales that surprisingly vary more than you'd think of the same position (meaning a Help desk analyst working at a bank makes more than in medical). Also you have to factor in specialization within IT. (A help desk person who works for specialized banking software company makes well north of that $68k figure because of how specialized, but in demand their knowledge is.)