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DirectX 12 Will Allow Multi-GPU Between GeForce And Radeon

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seth89
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2015/02/24 10:48:51 (permalink)
http://www.tomshardware.com/news/microsoft-directx12-amd-nvidia,28606.html
 
"We have early information about some of the details regarding DirectX 12, and what follows will surprise you.
A source with knowledge of the matter gave us some early information about an "unspoken API," which we strongly infer is DirectX 12.
We first heard of DirectX 12 in 2013, and DirectX 12 appears to finally be around the corner. It's expected to launch in tandem with the upcoming Windows 10 operating system.
The new API will work much differently from older APIs, and it's common knowledge by now that it will be "closer to the hardware" than older APIs, similar to AMD's Mantle. This will bring massive improvements in framerates and latency, but that's not all that DirectX 12 has up its sleeve.

Explicit Asynchronous Multi-GPU Capabilities

One of the big things that we will be seeing is DirectX 12's Explicit Asynchronous Multi-GPU capabilities. What this means is that the API combines all the different graphics resources in a system and puts them all into one "bucket." It is then left to the game developer to divide the workload up however they see fit, letting different hardware take care of different tasks.
Part of this new feature set that aids multi-GPU configurations is that the frame buffers (GPU memory) won't necessarily need to be mirrored anymore. In older APIs, in order to benefit from multiple GPUs, you'd have the two work together, each one rendering an alternate frame (AFR). This required both to have all of the texture and geometry data in their frame buffers, meaning that despite having two cards with 4 GB of memory, you'd still only have a 4 GB frame buffer.
DirectX 12 will remove the 4 + 4 = 4 idea and will work with a new frame rendering method called SFR, which stands for Split Frame Rendering. Developers will be able to manually, or automatically, divide the texture and geometry data between the GPUs, and all of the GPUs can then work together to work on each frame. Each GPU will then work on a specific portion of the screen, with the number of portions being equivalent to the number of GPUs installed.
Our source suggested that this technology will significantly reduce latency, and the explanation is simple. With AFR, a number of frames need to be in queue in order to deliver a smooth experience, but what this means is that the image on screen will always be about 4-5 frames behind the user's input actions.
This might deliver a very high framerate, but the latency will still make the game feel much less responsive. With SFR, however, the queue depth is always just one, or arguably even less, as each GPU is working on a different part of the screen. As the queue depth goes down, the framerate should also go up due to freed-up resources.
The source said that with binding the multiple GPUs together, DirectX 12 treats the entire graphics subsystem as a single, more powerful graphics card. Thus, users get the robustness of a running a single GPU, but with multiple graphics cards.
It should be noted that although the new Civilization: Beyond Earth title runs on Mantle, it has an SFR option and works in a similar way because AMD's Mantle API supports SFR. Mind you, Split Frame Rendering is not a new trick by any means. Many industrial film, photography, and 3D modelling applications use it, and back in the 90s some game engines also supported it.
Of course, chances are you won't be able to use all of the options described above at the same time. Split frame rendering, for example, will still likely require some of the textures and geometry data to be in multiple frame buffers, and there may be other sacrifices that have to be made."

Build A Multi-GPU System With Both AMD And Nvidia Cards

We were also told that DirectX 12 will support all of this across multiple GPU architectures, simultaneously. What this means is that Nvidia GeForce GPUs will be able to work in tandem with AMD Radeon GPUs to render the same game – the same frame, even.
This is especially interesting as it allows you to leverage the technology benefits of both of these hardware platforms if you wish to do so. If you like Nvidia's GeForce Experience software and 3D Vision, but you want to use AMD's TrueAudio and FreeSync, chances are you'll be able to do that when DirectX 12 comes around. What will likely happen is that one card will operate as the master card, while the other will be used for additional power.
What we're seeing here is that DirectX 12 is capable of aggregating graphics resources, be that compute or memory, in the most efficient way possible. Don't forget, however, that this isn't only beneficial for systems with multiple discrete desktop GPUs. Laptops with dual-graphics solutions, or systems running an APU and a GPU will be able to benefit too. DirectX 12's aggregation will allow GPUs to work together that today would be completely mismatched, possibly making technologies like SLI and CrossFire obsolete in the future.
There is a catch, however. Lots of the optimization work for the spreading of workloads is left to the developers – the game studios. The same went for older APIs, though, and DirectX 12 is intended to be much friendlier. For advanced uses it may be a bit tricky, but according to the source, implementing the SFR should be a relatively simple and painless process for most developers.
Queueing frames has been a difficult point for various studios, such that on some games SLI or CrossFire configurations don't even work. The aggregation together with SFR should solve that issue.
That's as far as we can reach into the cookie jar for now, but we expect to see and learn more at GDC."


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    aka_STEVE_b
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    Re: DirectX 12 Will Allow Multi-GPU Between GeForce And Radeon 2015/02/24 11:02:55 (permalink)
    *Countdown less than 2 weeks * - before Nvidia or AMD  restrict this from working by artificially software locking the ability in a driver update.
     
     

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    #2
    Grey_Beard
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    Re: DirectX 12 Will Allow Multi-GPU Between GeForce And Radeon 2015/02/24 11:42:59 (permalink)
    This looks promising, although Steve just rained on the parade.



    #3
    bdary
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    Re: DirectX 12 Will Allow Multi-GPU Between GeForce And Radeon 2015/02/24 12:08:09 (permalink)
    If all this is true, there is great potential here.  Time will tell if it gets utilized fully by developers to reach that potential...


     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
    #4
    peteo_85
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    Re: DirectX 12 Will Allow Multi-GPU Between GeForce And Radeon 2015/02/24 12:19:40 (permalink)
    bdary
    If all this is true, there is great potential here.  Time will tell if it gets utilized fully by developers to reach that potential...




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    rlb9682
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    Re: DirectX 12 Will Allow Multi-GPU Between GeForce And Radeon 2015/02/24 12:27:17 (permalink)
    I"m just wondering how long before NVidia or AMD or both nullify this feature with a driver release. It's not like they haven't done this previously so please don't think I"m being pessimistic. 

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    #6
    zildjian75
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    Re: DirectX 12 Will Allow Multi-GPU Between GeForce And Radeon 2015/02/24 12:38:47 (permalink)
    Sounds good to me...  but seeing how lazy game developers are these days, I will be shocked if they take advantage of the technology anytime soon...  Most games aren't even DX11.

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    owcraftsman
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    Re: DirectX 12 Will Allow Multi-GPU Between GeForce And Radeon 2015/02/24 16:39:27 (permalink)
    I doubt AMD will lock anything, if anything they have pushed this whole thing to the forefront, that's an Nvidia move who still requires matched pairs and an SLI bridge's.
     
    Developer's have every reason in the world to usher this in as it is truly an API sea change but why fix an old game when you can make money with a new one. Economics is always the bottom line.
     

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    lehpron
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    Re: DirectX 12 Will Allow Multi-GPU Between GeForce And Radeon 2015/02/24 17:19:40 (permalink)
    I'd like to know if DX12 will allow scaling beyond four cards, since it doesn't look like multi-GPU will be unique to AMD or nVidia.  

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    seth89
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    Re: DirectX 12 Will Allow Multi-GPU Between GeForce And Radeon 2015/02/24 18:30:17 (permalink)
    Will Xbox one be getting this dx12 update? If so I would love to see the performance increase.


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    rjohnson11
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    Re: DirectX 12 Will Allow Multi-GPU Between GeForce And Radeon 2015/02/24 23:04:42 (permalink)
    This will be interesting if true. 

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    Bruno747
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    Re: DirectX 12 Will Allow Multi-GPU Between GeForce And Radeon 2015/02/25 18:52:01 (permalink)
    My first thought was along the lines of what Steve said. How long before nvidia locks it out.

    Remember a few years ago when they took away the ability to have an nvidia card dedicated to physx when there was a radeon card in the system.

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    lehpron
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    Re: DirectX 12 Will Allow Multi-GPU Between GeForce And Radeon 2015/02/26 16:27:14 (permalink)
    Unless we'd gain an advantage unique to both systems (i.e PhysX on one and EyeFinity on the other), I don't see the gain.
    aka_STEVE_b
    *Countdown less than 2 weeks * - before Nvidia or AMD  restrict this from working by artificially software locking the ability in a driver update. 
    I'm pretty sure they both know about it in order to offer their support, not like they don't have access to DX12 and an alpha/beta version of Win10 to test it.  Although they may not announce incompatibility until it suits them.  A 'restriction' could have been written in a long time ago.
     
     
    But if DX12 had this much power over AMD/nVidia, my only interest would be with scaling cards either more than default 2-way or those not meant for SLI/CFX.
    post edited by lehpron - 2015/02/26 16:32:15

    For Intel processors, 0.122 x TDP = Continuous Amps at 12v [source].  

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    Xavier Zepherious
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    Re: DirectX 12 Will Allow Multi-GPU Between GeForce And Radeon 2015/02/26 17:28:53 (permalink)
    DX12 is coming to vista/win7 as well
     


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    seta8967
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    Re: DirectX 12 Will Allow Multi-GPU Between GeForce And Radeon 2015/02/26 18:48:55 (permalink)
    Xavier Zepherious
    DX12 is coming to vista/win7 as well
     




    have any proof of that? I've only seen DX12 limited to Win10.
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    candle_86
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    Re: DirectX 12 Will Allow Multi-GPU Between GeForce And Radeon 2015/02/26 23:05:52 (permalink)
    Xavier Zepherious
    DX12 is coming to vista/win7 as well
     




    no reason to do so, Vista and 7 are both in Extended Support, Vista is retired in less than 2 years, and 7 gets a free upgrade to 10. 
    #16
    ARMYguy
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    Re: DirectX 12 Will Allow Multi-GPU Between GeForce And Radeon 2015/02/27 09:54:59 (permalink)
    I thought it was stated somewhere that they ditched the idea of putting dx12 on anything but windows X now, since it really does not make sense as said above by candle.

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    Baltothewolf
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    Re: DirectX 12 Will Allow Multi-GPU Between GeForce And Radeon 2015/02/27 11:32:15 (permalink)
    Wow double post, thanks forums!!!!!!!!!!

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    Baltothewolf
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    Re: DirectX 12 Will Allow Multi-GPU Between GeForce And Radeon 2015/02/27 11:32:15 (permalink)
    With Windows X being so close to 7, I don't see anyone holding out ok win7 anyway. I know I'll be pir-- I mean 'buying' win X.

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    knightsilver
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    Re: DirectX 12 Will Allow Multi-GPU Between GeForce And Radeon 2015/02/27 12:01:15 (permalink)
    I see  Nvidia pulling some crap before AMD. Back when, I always thought it was dumb of nvidia not to offer a working setup for GeForce and Quadro to work on the same motherboard, it's all a out greed not tech theses days...
    #20
    Vlada011
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    Re: DirectX 12 Will Allow Multi-GPU Between GeForce And Radeon 2015/02/27 12:13:20 (permalink)
    Yes, you are right, today is only important to earn more money no matter how. 
    And all mistakes of IT companies pay customers at the end, they lose, nobody else.
     

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    Xavier Zepherious
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    Re: DirectX 12 Will Allow Multi-GPU Between GeForce And Radeon 2015/02/27 21:37:08 (permalink)
    seta8967
    Xavier Zepherious
    DX12 is coming to vista/win7 as well
     




    have any proof of that? I've only seen DX12 limited to Win10.




    http://channel9.msdn.com/Events/Build/2014/9-004 
     
    windows 7 and 8 for sure 
    windows 8 phone
     
    listen to the whole show - it's in there
     
    Microsoft has it in there plans to make all OS's that have a large install base be able to use DX12
    you may however have to wait for it... win10 comes first and making it work for that
    then porting it to win 8 and 7 after
     
    you won't have dx12 games till xmas 2015
    post edited by Xavier Zepherious - 2015/02/27 21:58:41


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    #22
    fubarhouse
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    Re: DirectX 12 Will Allow Multi-GPU Between GeForce And Radeon 2015/02/28 20:21:06 (permalink)
    I am liking everything I've read here, even though the chances of legacy support being locked by graphics chipset manufacturers will likely lock the feature for games not specifically developed for Windows 10 support are pretty high...
     
    It will mean a many great things coming in the future, and shouldn't we all be excited?
    #23
    ILikeBeans
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    Re: DirectX 12 Will Allow Multi-GPU Between GeForce And Radeon 2015/02/28 21:47:19 (permalink)
    Wow DX12 would be freaking awesome, no more vram issues.

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