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Where to Learn Overclocking Science?

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levifig
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2015/01/21 12:41:22 (permalink)
So, I've been overclocking pretty much every piece of hardware I get my hands on for some 20 years now. So far, it's been all trial and error: try this, breaks, try again slightly different, breaks, try… try…, works = yay. While this is fine, I'm now interested in getting a bit more into the science of it. I know a lot of it will always be up to "silica lottery" and plain ol' luck, but I just want to get a bit more of the underlying electrical/electronic knowledge behind things like voltage frequency, heat transfer rates,  etc… 
 
Are there any reference places I can get into that kind of knowledge with taking a high level electronics or microchip architecture course? :P Since this is purely a hobbyist-level interest, I'm not looking to become an expert, but just really get into the science behind all the different options in a BIOS/UEFI… :)
 
Thanks in advance.

WHEATLEY => Lian-Li V3000 Modded :: Asus ROG Rampage VI Apex :: Intel i9-7900X @ 4.8GHz 1.26V All Cores w/ EKWB Monoblock :: XFX Vega 56 w/ Heatkiller VI :: Zotac GT1030 :: 64GB G.Skill TridentZ RGB 3200MHz CL14 @ 3600CL16 :: Samsung 960 EVO 500GB NVMe :: WD Black 1TB NVMe :: 2x Corsair MP510 480GB NVMe :: HardwareLabs GTX 480 & SR2 480 :: 12x Corsair ML120 PRO RGB :: Corsair AX1200i

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    bcavnaugh
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    Re: Where to Learn Overclocking Science? 2015/01/21 13:22:05 (permalink)
    Don't we all wish this. I have done the same as you have. The last 3 Years going on 4 I have joined in the Water Cooling Side.

    Associate Code: 9E88QK5L7811G3H


     
    #2
    levifig
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    Re: Where to Learn Overclocking Science? 2015/01/21 13:42:26 (permalink)
    bcavnaugh
    Don't we all wish this. I have done the same as you have. The last 3 Years going on 4 I have joined in the Water Cooling Side.



    Well, if there's more than one of us, we could start collecting that start of info… ;)

    WHEATLEY => Lian-Li V3000 Modded :: Asus ROG Rampage VI Apex :: Intel i9-7900X @ 4.8GHz 1.26V All Cores w/ EKWB Monoblock :: XFX Vega 56 w/ Heatkiller VI :: Zotac GT1030 :: 64GB G.Skill TridentZ RGB 3200MHz CL14 @ 3600CL16 :: Samsung 960 EVO 500GB NVMe :: WD Black 1TB NVMe :: 2x Corsair MP510 480GB NVMe :: HardwareLabs GTX 480 & SR2 480 :: 12x Corsair ML120 PRO RGB :: Corsair AX1200i

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    awalleyeguy
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    Re: Where to Learn Overclocking Science? 2015/01/21 13:54:25 (permalink)
    The only "science" I could think of is understanding how the different high frequencies affect one another. Because one thing for sure, they do.
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    levifig
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    Re: Where to Learn Overclocking Science? 2015/01/21 15:16:17 (permalink)
    awalleyeguy
    The only "science" I could think of is understanding how the different high frequencies affect one another. Because one thing for sure, they do.

     
    But that's from a "fiddle with settings to get the highest possible overclock"… :) I was thinking more from the perspective of understanding the underlying physics of some, not all, changes we make… :)

    WHEATLEY => Lian-Li V3000 Modded :: Asus ROG Rampage VI Apex :: Intel i9-7900X @ 4.8GHz 1.26V All Cores w/ EKWB Monoblock :: XFX Vega 56 w/ Heatkiller VI :: Zotac GT1030 :: 64GB G.Skill TridentZ RGB 3200MHz CL14 @ 3600CL16 :: Samsung 960 EVO 500GB NVMe :: WD Black 1TB NVMe :: 2x Corsair MP510 480GB NVMe :: HardwareLabs GTX 480 & SR2 480 :: 12x Corsair ML120 PRO RGB :: Corsair AX1200i

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    djcypher1
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    Re: Where to Learn Overclocking Science? 2015/01/23 13:52:04 (permalink)
    As you somewhat stated in your original post; The design and manufacturing of a computer processor and motherboard chips has many more than just one field of study involved obviously.  A whole team of departments (let alone individuals), work together to design parts of the whole.  Therefore, I don't think there is any type of "class" that you could take unless you want to spend the next 16+ of so years in school getting degrees in computer science, electrical engineering, software engineering, micro engineering, etc., etc,.
     
    Therefore, I'd assume the best place to actually start understanding the science behind it would be Intel itself.  Read every piece of technical literature you can find related to their products, read their patents and maybe even try to contact them with some questions.  A lot of the really in-depth details will, of course, be "classified" and not for the general public.  However, I think you could learn much in the way of how the CPU, memory, and chipsets communicate.  In addition, you'd probably be able to find out what, where, and how the voltages and frequencies correlate to each other. 
     
    The way I think of it (and I may be totally wrong here), is that overclocking is making a concert of components work in harmony.  Essentially your are balancing everything out.  Too little voltage here or too much frequency there makes an imbalance.  I don't think you'll ever find out EXACTLY what's happening without a massive amount of schooling, but I bet you'd understand it well enough to take half the guesswork out of it.   It would be more about the limitation of the components than skill at that point.
     
     
     
     

    System Specs:
    Metal box with an X99 system, a bunch of EVGA parts, and some wires inside of it.
     


     

     
    #6
    levifig
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    Re: Where to Learn Overclocking Science? 2015/01/23 14:14:35 (permalink)
    djcypher1
    As you somewhat stated in your original post; The design and manufacturing of a computer processor and motherboard chips has many more than just one field of study involved obviously.  A whole team of departments (let alone individuals), work together to design parts of the whole.  Therefore, I don't think there is any type of "class" that you could take unless you want to spend the next 16+ of so years in school getting degrees in computer science, electrical engineering, software engineering, micro engineering, etc., etc,.
     
    Therefore, I'd assume the best place to actually start understanding the science behind it would be Intel itself.  Read every piece of technical literature you can find related to their products, read their patents and maybe even try to contact them with some questions.  A lot of the really in-depth details will, of course, be "classified" and not for the general public.  However, I think you could learn much in the way of how the CPU, memory, and chipsets communicate.  In addition, you'd probably be able to find out what, where, and how the voltages and frequencies correlate to each other. 
     
    The way I think of it (and I may be totally wrong here), is that overclocking is making a concert of components work in harmony.  Essentially your are balancing everything out.  Too little voltage here or too much frequency there makes an imbalance.  I don't think you'll ever find out EXACTLY what's happening without a massive amount of schooling, but I bet you'd understand it well enough to take half the guesswork out of it.   It would be more about the limitation of the components than skill at that point.

     
    Yes, this exactly! What I want to know is if there is a place where we can collect some of that knowledge? The one that specific applies to our hobbies (e.g. overclocking, water cooling, phase cooling, etc)? :)
     
    I'd love to make some quick "tips" videos with compiled knowledge for folks like us who are interested but want a more honed vs shotgun approach at that stuff… :)

    WHEATLEY => Lian-Li V3000 Modded :: Asus ROG Rampage VI Apex :: Intel i9-7900X @ 4.8GHz 1.26V All Cores w/ EKWB Monoblock :: XFX Vega 56 w/ Heatkiller VI :: Zotac GT1030 :: 64GB G.Skill TridentZ RGB 3200MHz CL14 @ 3600CL16 :: Samsung 960 EVO 500GB NVMe :: WD Black 1TB NVMe :: 2x Corsair MP510 480GB NVMe :: HardwareLabs GTX 480 & SR2 480 :: 12x Corsair ML120 PRO RGB :: Corsair AX1200i

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    Grey_Beard
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    Re: Where to Learn Overclocking Science? 2015/01/23 14:33:45 (permalink)
    I might also suggest finding forums that cater to those that do this "hobby", like Overclockers.net or others out there. Unless you want to spend countless hours reading and trying to understand the concepts, there are forums where you can ask those who have tried things. The main issue is that some of the literature is written at a level that few really can understand, regardless of classified or confidential information. There maybe someone on one of these forums who has the educational background in electrical engineering to help you there. There could be another who knows a specific component on the motherboard and how it reacts to changes, as there also may be many more who have tried this or tried that who could guide you based on the questions you ask. This might also be a nice side job, as publishing something like this could make you a few dollars, may not make you wealthy, but could pay you back for the hours spent developing the understanding through the research. Just my two cents.



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    djcypher1
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    Re: Where to Learn Overclocking Science? 2015/01/23 15:36:47 (permalink)
    I find this topic very interesting.  Here's my conspiracy theory....LOL.
     
     
    1.  Would knowing the exact steps required to overclock a component to it's highest achievable level eliminate the fun, "hobby" aspect?
    2.  Is there an exact science to overclocking or is each component completely solitary?  Meaning that no standard formula works and every component is unique.
     
    Let's take a look at motherboard manufacturers as an example.  They must purchase the chipset and other components from Intel and follow Intel's rules in terms of how the architecture works.  There must be some kind of instructions and schematics that Intel gives to the mobo manufacturer that explains EXACTLY what is required for the system to work properly or at all.   Things like capacitor ratings, connections, number of pins, voltage, amperage, etc., must all be predetermined or at least guided.  Therefore, the mobo manufacturer must use their knowledge to configure hardware to work with the existing rules handed down to them.  A BIOS must be created and given values to adjust (again this must be based on the system architecture).  
     
    If the above is true (again, I'm not entirely sure), then there must be some formula that's floating out there.  Otherwise, how would the mobo manufacturer (or Intel for that matter) know what values are adjustable vs not adjustable and how much adjustment to make available.   There's serious money being made in 'overclocking' and 'gaming'.  Perhaps there is a definite formula or set of instructions.  It's possible that is part of the stuff that is considered confidential.  Otherwise, using the 'formula', you would make decisions on component manufacturer's spec sheets and not the glossy packaging.  
     
    It could also be just too damn hard to understand unless you have that doctorate I mentioned earlier so they don't even bother trying to explain it to us mere mortals...LOL

    System Specs:
    Metal box with an X99 system, a bunch of EVGA parts, and some wires inside of it.
     


     

     
    #9
    levifig
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    Re: Where to Learn Overclocking Science? 2015/01/26 08:08:23 (permalink)
    Grey_Beard
    I might also suggest finding forums that cater to those that do this "hobby", like Overclockers.net or others out there. Unless you want to spend countless hours reading and trying to understand the concepts, there are forums where you can ask those who have tried things. The main issue is that some of the literature is written at a level that few really can understand, regardless of classified or confidential information. There maybe someone on one of these forums who has the educational background in electrical engineering to help you there. There could be another who knows a specific component on the motherboard and how it reacts to changes, as there also may be many more who have tried this or tried that who could guide you based on the questions you ask. This might also be a nice side job, as publishing something like this could make you a few dollars, may not make you wealthy, but could pay you back for the hours spent developing the understanding through the research. Just my two cents.



    I think this is the ultimate way to do it. I've done it off and on for years. I guess what I was trying to figure out is if there is a "compiled knowledge base" of sorts… or if there should even be one! :)

    WHEATLEY => Lian-Li V3000 Modded :: Asus ROG Rampage VI Apex :: Intel i9-7900X @ 4.8GHz 1.26V All Cores w/ EKWB Monoblock :: XFX Vega 56 w/ Heatkiller VI :: Zotac GT1030 :: 64GB G.Skill TridentZ RGB 3200MHz CL14 @ 3600CL16 :: Samsung 960 EVO 500GB NVMe :: WD Black 1TB NVMe :: 2x Corsair MP510 480GB NVMe :: HardwareLabs GTX 480 & SR2 480 :: 12x Corsair ML120 PRO RGB :: Corsair AX1200i

    #10
    levifig
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    Re: Where to Learn Overclocking Science? 2015/01/26 08:11:48 (permalink)
    djcypher1
    I find this topic very interesting.  Here's my conspiracy theory....LOL.
     
     
    1.  Would knowing the exact steps required to overclock a component to it's highest achievable level eliminate the fun, "hobby" aspect?
    2.  Is there an exact science to overclocking or is each component completely solitary?  Meaning that no standard formula works and every component is unique.
     
    Let's take a look at motherboard manufacturers as an example.  They must purchase the chipset and other components from Intel and follow Intel's rules in terms of how the architecture works.  There must be some kind of instructions and schematics that Intel gives to the mobo manufacturer that explains EXACTLY what is required for the system to work properly or at all.   Things like capacitor ratings, connections, number of pins, voltage, amperage, etc., must all be predetermined or at least guided.  Therefore, the mobo manufacturer must use their knowledge to configure hardware to work with the existing rules handed down to them.  A BIOS must be created and given values to adjust (again this must be based on the system architecture).  
     
    If the above is true (again, I'm not entirely sure), then there must be some formula that's floating out there.  Otherwise, how would the mobo manufacturer (or Intel for that matter) know what values are adjustable vs not adjustable and how much adjustment to make available.   There's serious money being made in 'overclocking' and 'gaming'.  Perhaps there is a definite formula or set of instructions.  It's possible that is part of the stuff that is considered confidential.  Otherwise, using the 'formula', you would make decisions on component manufacturer's spec sheets and not the glossy packaging.  
     
    It could also be just too damn hard to understand unless you have that doctorate I mentioned earlier so they don't even bother trying to explain it to us mere mortals...LOL




    Interesting take… :) I don't think science would get in the way of a hobby. I do agree that there is no such thing as an exact science of overclocking. I have actually found that some of the motherboard manuals offer a good insight into what each option does. I think that bridging that with a short explanation on the science behind it (in simple terms), and connecting with the end results (e.g. benchmarking results, etc) is what I'm looking for… :) Since such a thing doesn't exist, I'm left wondering if there is even a "market" for something like that…
     
    Honestly, I'm just thinking out loud here… :) Thanks for the reply! :D

    WHEATLEY => Lian-Li V3000 Modded :: Asus ROG Rampage VI Apex :: Intel i9-7900X @ 4.8GHz 1.26V All Cores w/ EKWB Monoblock :: XFX Vega 56 w/ Heatkiller VI :: Zotac GT1030 :: 64GB G.Skill TridentZ RGB 3200MHz CL14 @ 3600CL16 :: Samsung 960 EVO 500GB NVMe :: WD Black 1TB NVMe :: 2x Corsair MP510 480GB NVMe :: HardwareLabs GTX 480 & SR2 480 :: 12x Corsair ML120 PRO RGB :: Corsair AX1200i

    #11
    kougar
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    Re: Where to Learn Overclocking Science? 2015/02/02 10:30:34 (permalink)
    Anandtech tries to do that every time they dive deeply into a new GPU or CPU architecture. CPUs have been stagnant and GPUs are getting more focused as well, but they still spend a dozen pages explaining the inner workings of the things when they launch. Through those articles ya can learn where actual bottlenecks would be for pushing clockspeeds, what the voltage characteristics will be for the core design, and so forth.
     
    Regarding forums XtremeSystems lives up to its name, and it's generally filled with very technical people that will gladly get into nitty-gritty details over cooling or overclocking. Though if you start searching the site as a database you will be surprised at a lot of the past discussions you can find there, it's a treasure trove of information. 


    Have water, will cool. 
    #12
    levifig
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    Re: Where to Learn Overclocking Science? 2015/02/02 10:48:44 (permalink)
    kougar
    Anandtech tries to do that every time they dive deeply into a new GPU or CPU architecture. CPUs have been stagnant and GPUs are getting more focused as well, but they still spend a dozen pages explaining the inner workings of the things when they launch. Through those articles ya can learn where actual bottlenecks would be for pushing clockspeeds, what the voltage characteristics will be for the core design, and so forth.
     
    Regarding forums XtremeSystems lives up to its name, and it's generally filled with very technical people that will gladly get into nitty-gritty details over cooling or overclocking. Though if you start searching the site as a database you will be surprised at a lot of the past discussions you can find there, it's a treasure trove of information. 




    Awesome! Thanks for the advice… :D

    WHEATLEY => Lian-Li V3000 Modded :: Asus ROG Rampage VI Apex :: Intel i9-7900X @ 4.8GHz 1.26V All Cores w/ EKWB Monoblock :: XFX Vega 56 w/ Heatkiller VI :: Zotac GT1030 :: 64GB G.Skill TridentZ RGB 3200MHz CL14 @ 3600CL16 :: Samsung 960 EVO 500GB NVMe :: WD Black 1TB NVMe :: 2x Corsair MP510 480GB NVMe :: HardwareLabs GTX 480 & SR2 480 :: 12x Corsair ML120 PRO RGB :: Corsair AX1200i

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