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How can you lock a PC Game to 30FPS AND get it as smooth as consoles at 30fps?

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kidcrumb
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2014/11/19 13:17:50 (permalink)
My GPUs on my computer are getting older and cant really maintain a consistent framerate at 60fps for newer games at the higest. So I'm trying to lock down a 30fps with more visual quality instead of lowering the quality to get 60fps. I was watching my roommate play Far Cry 4 on his Xbox One and the framerate of that game, I believe, is 30fps. Even at 30fps, the game looks really smooth. But when I use Nvidia Inspector to limit my frames to 30fps and use Nvidia Adaptive Vsync Half Refresh Rate it looks unbeleiveably choppy on my PC.
 
Is there some type of effect or post processing effect consoles use to make 30fps look so smooth? And can you use that on a PC to get the same smooth effect?

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    kidcrumb
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    Re: How can you lock a PC Game to 30FPS AND get it as smooth as consoles at 30fps? 2014/11/19 13:38:06 (permalink)
    After some trial and error, under the options in Nvidia Inspector you can limit the framerate using:
     
    PS_FRAMERATE_LIMITER_FPS_30
     
    This smooths everything out, but doubles up the frames. So you see 60fps, even if the game is internally running at 30. Makes everything a lot smoother.

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    banzaigtv
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    Re: How can you lock a PC Game to 30FPS AND get it as smooth as consoles at 30fps? 2014/11/20 00:13:51 (permalink)
    I've been using RivaTuner to lock games to 30 fps. I've done so with several games on my previous GPU and the game motions are mostly cinematic. So is using Nvidia Inspector better? I plan to keep doing this with Metro 2033; I get low fps in that game with graphics settings maxed.

     
     
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    kidcrumb
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    Re: How can you lock a PC Game to 30FPS AND get it as smooth as consoles at 30fps? 2014/11/20 08:36:58 (permalink)
    I dont know.
     
    I've never used RivaTuner. Its making me really mad though. Now for some reason, I have the game maxed out and I get over 60fps in most situations with Vsync off. Except I have an ungodly amount of micro stuttering and screen tearing. Consoles dont have screen tearing. lol. I wish I could smooth out the ramerate and limit it to 60 so even if it goes below 60fps it doesnt tear the screen up.
     
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    kougar
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    Re: How can you lock a PC Game to 30FPS AND get it as smooth as consoles at 30fps? 2014/11/21 04:19:49 (permalink)
    Reducing the FPS and limiting it is not going to improve the minimum FPS in games, and the minimum FPS is what usually disrupts the game fluidity anyway. If Vsync isn't enough to stop the screen tearing then ya need to lower the game settings or upgrade the GPU!
     
    SLI can also cause stuttering and screen tearing just because of how it works. Split Frame Rendering SLI mode has each GPU render one-half of the frame, but it is notable for causing tearing because it's hard to balance the frame loads (sky vs ground in one frame, etc). Alternate Frame Rendering has each GPU work on a single frame but is notable for causing micro-suttering because syncing each GPU's individual frames isn't perfectly timed (synced) when the GPUs are struggling with the game load. You might just try gaming on a single GPU and seeing what that does for the tearing and stuttering, even if overall FPS takes a big hit.
    post edited by kougar - 2014/11/21 04:21:58


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    kidcrumb
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    Re: How can you lock a PC Game to 30FPS AND get it as smooth as consoles at 30fps? 2014/11/21 07:52:23 (permalink)
    Is it possible to slightly increase the input lag, giving the computer a few more microseconds to sync the frames together?

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    kougar
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    Re: How can you lock a PC Game to 30FPS AND get it as smooth as consoles at 30fps? 2014/11/22 06:40:54 (permalink)
    Simply turning vsync on will raise input latency going to the display, but I don't think that will get what you're trying for? It can make things worse rather than better at lower frame rates.
     
    I'm by no means a GPU guru (I read Tech Report / Anandtech for that stuff), but this article should interest you. It gets into the details between vsync, triple buffering, and the advantages/disadvantages of both. http://www.anandtech.com/show/2794/2 According to that you could try disabling vsync and enabling triple buffering. With a single struggling GPU it won't actually help because the GPU itself wasn't fast enough in the first place... but since you are running SLI it might smooth out the FPS delivery between the cards and the driver/display. 


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    kidcrumb
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    Re: How can you lock a PC Game to 30FPS AND get it as smooth as consoles at 30fps? 2014/11/22 06:56:23 (permalink)
    I'm just trying to get the same smoothness effect.
     
    I was only getting 30-40fps because for some reason SLI was turned off. (It sometimes does that). When I enabled SLI the game runs fine maxed out at 55-80FPS. The game itself has some stuttering still, but its nothing to do with my framerate. Something with the game itself causes a weird issue like that. I'm trying to find out how consoles can be so smooth at 30fps. People always say motion blur covers up the framerate, and you notice it because your mouse is more precise. Well, Motion Blur is turned on and I'm using my PS4 controller. It still looks hella choppy at the 30fps setting and the 60fps setting even with Vsync turned off and im getting 80fps. Its not screen tearing choppiness either. The game itself has a stutter and im just trying to find a way to smooth that out....
     
    Thanks for the article, I'll be sure to give it a read.

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    Dwarfy
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    Re: How can you lock a PC Game to 30FPS AND get it as smooth as consoles at 30fps? 2014/11/22 07:16:55 (permalink)
    One of the key problems is that games are built for the console and ported to the pc which usually means the pc has to work harder anyway.
     
    Perhaps try toying with a few settings and see if you can find one that keeps it looking good and yet allows it to run better.
     
    Plus it also looks like far cry on the xbox is not full 1080p
     
    http://www.hardcoregamer.com/2014/11/21/far-cry-4-runs-at-1400x1080-on-xbox-one/118696/
     
    Which would take some strain off the poor console ;)
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    kidcrumb
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    Re: How can you lock a PC Game to 30FPS AND get it as smooth as consoles at 30fps? 2014/11/22 09:15:26 (permalink)
    Yeah, but I get 60fps over 95% of the time. How does it look less smooth than something running at 30?
     
    There has to be some type of effect that they use. Like a post FX or something. Because in consoles, when the framerate drops to 20fps in most games you dont even notice.
     
    Crysis 1 on PC had this built in. When the framerate got low, the game still played extremely smoothly. It was never choppy. So there has to be something that prevents the game from "jumping" or "stuttering" forward. Something that smooths the transition between framerates.

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    kougar
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    Re: How can you lock a PC Game to 30FPS AND get it as smooth as consoles at 30fps? 2014/11/23 09:16:39 (permalink)
    Micro-stuttering is the terminology for that. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Micro_stuttering
     
    Tech Report is big on frame latency testing for that reason. http://techreport.com/news/21625/multi-gpu-micro-stuttering-captured-on-video Raw FPS alone doesn't guarantee smooth fluidity if the frames are unevenly shown on the screen or they're shown out of order. Or a monitor can show half of an old frame and half of a new one at the same time, which is what Vsync was supposed to fix. Here's Tech Report's latest "Inside the Second" article that goes into detail on the subject matter http://techreport.com/rev...ia-frame-capture-tools


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    kidcrumb
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    Re: How can you lock a PC Game to 30FPS AND get it as smooth as consoles at 30fps? 2014/11/23 10:17:37 (permalink)
    I know what micro stuttering is, and the articles do a great job of explaining it. But none of them offer up solutions as to how to minimize it or reduce it.
     
    Can I manually set a frametime? And the game should be smooth as long as my computer can push out the framerate required to keep a constant frametime.
     
    In Far Cry 4, FrameTime for me is about 16.7ms. Sometimes it jumps a little higher when the fps dips but it never, ever goes above 18ms. Can I manually set the computer to match an 18ms frametime?

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    kougar
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    Re: How can you lock a PC Game to 30FPS AND get it as smooth as consoles at 30fps? 2014/11/24 16:28:25 (permalink)
    I'm not familiar with NVIDIA Inspector or the Half-refresh thing you mentioned in your original post. You can create a custom profile for your monitor to a specific refresh rate and then turn on vsync, and that would effectively force your system to that FPS cap to achieve the same effect. 
     
    I'm no expert which is why I provided all the links. What are you minimum FPS limits in single/SLI modes? The problem sounds like a single GPU isn't fast enough to provide stable framerates or sufficient minimum framerates to give you game smoothness. Yet when you SLI the overhead and inherent stuttering is still causing problems even though you have sufficient framerates. Verifying the min FPS in SLI would help. Consoles don't tend to have min FPS problems because game devs specifically optimize to the console hardware to fix them, PC users don't get that low-level of optimization. 
     
    There's no perfect fix for SLI-related stuttering or jitter. It's an inherent problem with SLI and Crossfire, and why sites like Tech Report still recommend a single large GPU instead of two in SLI or Xfire.  As I hinted earlier you can try changing the SLI mode type between AFR and SFR to see if that helps at all. Enabling Triple buffering may help as well. But if the SLI setup is getting very low min FPS spikes then only a GPU upgrade can fix that. 


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    kidcrumb
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    Re: How can you lock a PC Game to 30FPS AND get it as smooth as consoles at 30fps? 2014/11/24 19:41:33 (permalink)
    kougar
    I'm not familiar with NVIDIA Inspector or the Half-refresh thing you mentioned in your original post. You can create a custom profile for your monitor to a specific refresh rate and then turn on vsync, and that would effectively force your system to that FPS cap to achieve the same effect. 
     
    I'm no expert which is why I provided all the links. What are you minimum FPS limits in single/SLI modes? The problem sounds like a single GPU isn't fast enough to provide stable framerates or sufficient minimum framerates to give you game smoothness. Yet when you SLI the overhead and inherent stuttering is still causing problems even though you have sufficient framerates. Verifying the min FPS in SLI would help. Consoles don't tend to have min FPS problems because game devs specifically optimize to the console hardware to fix them, PC users don't get that low-level of optimization. 
     
    There's no perfect fix for SLI-related stuttering or jitter. It's an inherent problem with SLI and Crossfire, and why sites like Tech Report still recommend a single large GPU instead of two in SLI or Xfire.  As I hinted earlier you can try changing the SLI mode type between AFR and SFR to see if that helps at all. Enabling Triple buffering may help as well. But if the SLI setup is getting very low min FPS spikes then only a GPU upgrade can fix that. 




    And thank you for all the links. I enjoy reading over that kind of stuff. 
     
    The issue isnt SLI related. Its not microstutter from alternating between the frames. The game itself has a stutter. Even when I disable SLI and run with 1 GPU on medium setting, it stutters. In SLI I get about 55-80FPS. Never dips below 55. 
     
    I think I figured out how consoles look so smooth. After reading all over the place it seems like even if a console is running at 30fps, it doubles each frame to perfectly match the 60hz of most monitors. So you actually see 60 frames each second. Instead of showing one frame and holding it for 2 refresh rates, it actually refreshes the image again. Although this makes no real difference performance wise, our eyes can notice it which gives it the smoothing effect. I just dont know how to replicate that on PC.

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