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2x SLI GTX 970 FTW - asynchronous data

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Morphevz
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2014/11/09 15:38:43 (permalink)
Anyone else with 2xSLI 970 FTW noticing any asynchronous data between the cards? I speak mainly in regards to the power usage (and its limit report) and the running voltage (and its limit report).
 
The attached screenshot is the MSI Afterburner data regarding two Fire Strike Ultra runs. One on stock and one with an overclock (+87mv, 110 power, +100 core, +250 memory).
If you take a look at the power and voltage data, you'll notice a few things:
- The "limit" will pass from 0 to 1 (to report that it has been reached) in moments where said limit hasn't been reached (this is mostly noticeable in GPU 1 - left column).
- The data isn't synched between the two cards, meaning voltage and power usage isn't synched.
- GPU2 never touched 110 power usag e, but you can its limits chart showing a few instances where the limit had been reached.
 
What I seem to notice so far, apart from the asynchronous data:
- GPU 1 limit charts report limits reached for voltage and power usage before the limits are reached. It gives the idea that despite the power limit being set to 110, the limit chart flags the limit being reached the moment the card passes the 100 power usage mark. Same goes for voltage.
- GPU 2 seems to report voltage and power usage limits more accurately, but occasionally also flags limits before they are reached.
- While benching on air, I keep fan speeds at 100% at all times. I noticed that GPU 1 usually runs between 10ºC to 20ºC higher than GPU 2, something expected I think, since they're in PCI-E slots 1 and 3.
- The cards rarelly (if ever) run at the same voltage, despite being the exact same model, having a similar ASIC (around 68%) and having their serial numbers 7 numbers apart.
 
Currently, I'm not sure if I should install the watercooling blocks on them and try to adjust the BIOS to avoid having the variable speeds and see if both voltage and power usage stabilize on the same values, or, if there's actually something wrong with one of the cards and installing the watercooling block would just give me double work for an RMA. =)
 
Is everyone running SLI experiencing the same? Is this asynchronous data normal?
post edited by Morphevz - 2014/11/09 16:12:46

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    hanson1979
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    Re: 2x SLI GTX 970 FTW - asynchronous data 2014/11/09 16:00:19 (permalink)
    I will give you a report as soon as I have mine. They should arrive tomorrow afternoon. With my GTX 970 SC SLI it was similar but I use GPU shark from Furmark for monitoring. I found that the software mixes around some values like limits, temperature and so on between the 2 cards. For your temperature has to be said: when SLI'ing on air the upper card will for sure be hotter as it sucks the hot air from the other to cool. Don't know if it makes 20° as I'm on water but it sounds realistic. Any way, will do some tests and give you a feedback...
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    Morphevz
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    Re: 2x SLI GTX 970 FTW - asynchronous data 2014/11/09 16:19:34 (permalink)
    Yeah, before running them SLI, I tested them individually, and the temps where better than the hotter card in SLI, this should indeed be normal. The only reason I didn't install the waterblocks yet, is really because first I want to be sure the cards are A-OK. Both of them have coil whine on menus, but didn't notice it yet in games; though I'll be able to judge better once they're on water.
     
    One thing I forgot to mention (but I think this is normal); while testing both cards individually, either of them could do +100 core and +500 memory. However, SLI is not all that stable with those values. I'm hopping the WC blocks and a BIOS to fix the fluctuating clocks and voltage help stabilizing those values in SLI. =)
     
    I look forward to your findings!
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    hanson1979
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    Re: 2x SLI GTX 970 FTW - asynchronous data 2014/11/10 10:05:38 (permalink)
    UPS didn't come today... 
    So I hope I can test tomorrow, will report.
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    Morphevz
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    Re: 2x SLI GTX 970 FTW - asynchronous data 2014/11/10 15:01:56 (permalink)
     Awww, there's always tomorrow! Good luck tackling the UPS dude. =)
     
    And here's another one, before I call it a day. This time, it's a Fire Strike bench (stock settings, and result here: http://www.3dmark.com/3dm/4686084?):

    Apart from the usual asynchronous volt/power limits reported between the two cards; another curious fact is GPU1 reporting the power voltage limit below it (the stock limit is 1.212v), and while being below GPU2 voltage (1.187v vs. 1.193v). GPU2 shows its higher accuracy again, not flagging a limit where no limit has been reached.
     
    Regarding power limit; during this round, even though GPU2 reported it less times, some of the limits reports where when GPU2 power was at 94%. GPU1 reported more power limits, but the earliest reported was at 96%. Earlier in Unigine Valley though, GPU1 was the one triggering the limits 6% earlier than it should.
     
    Note: I'm still running drivers 344.48, as 344.60 introduced a lot of stuttering, and therefore I won't be bothered with 340.65, or any other BS game enhancement driver.
    post edited by Morphevz - 2014/11/14 06:51:23

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    Morphevz
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    Re: 2x SLI GTX 970 FTW - asynchronous data 2014/11/14 06:50:49 (permalink)
    Update: installed the waterblocks, and noticed less asynchronous data on drivers 344.48. Then updated to drivers 344.65 and confirmed the same reduced synched limitations.

    So, it feels like the asynchronous data is somehow afected by the heat on the cards, even when below their limits.
     
    Here's a screenshot of a Unigine Valley run, followed by a Fire Strike standard one with the 344.65 drivers. (I also noticed less stuttering in Valley compared to the previous 344.60 drivers):

    Another thing I noticed is that the core clock frequency is much more stable on water (temps are 36-37ºC idle and 51-52ºC on full load). This, at least with stock speeds and stock BIOS. But now I wonder, given the low temps on water and the stock BIOS; should the card be hitting the limits as all? Is this "per spec"? Or is it actually related to my piss poor ASIC quality on both cards (68.1% and 68.6%), that no way in hell provides better headroom for overclock?
     
    Also, is it just me or having half the memory on the back of the card is a poor design decision for cooling purposes?...
    post edited by Morphevz - 2014/11/14 07:01:03

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    hanson1979
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    Re: 2x SLI GTX 970 FTW - asynchronous data 2014/11/15 02:15:20 (permalink)
    Hi,
     
    I experienced the same issues like you. So I installed my waterblocks (same like you) as well and use a modded BIOS with raised powerlimit and unlocked voltage up to 1,275V now. With it the cards run stable and sync @ 1531/4005 MHz. Powerlimit is at 245 W and they still throttle in benches but not in games ;-)
     
    EDIT: ASIC is 72 % and 73,1 % and my serials are in a line.
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    Morphevz
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    Re: 2x SLI GTX 970 FTW - asynchronous data 2014/11/15 05:20:51 (permalink)
    Hmmm... care to share the BIOS? Is it Cyclops (Overclock.net) or Roach's one? Cyclops would crash on me and I saw no benefits on Roach's over using the stock ones. As I said earlier, the stock clock throttling that he was experiencing (apart from stuttering and tearing), was also experienced by me on air, but once I put the cards on water, the clock frequencies became much more stable on the same benches.
     
    Regarding the 1,275V, you can even set it to 1,300v... it doesn't matter; unless you're doing physical mods to the card, it won't let you go above 1,262v... It can of course touch a higher value, but it won't stay above 1,262v - or at least so has been my experience.
     
    By "run stable and sync", do you mean you have the cards synched in Afterburner/Precision or that the power and voltage limit fluctuations are in sync?
     
    Nice clocks though, I wish mine would go that high but they feel like they have a will of their own, sometimes staying stable at 1506/4001 MHz... sometimes not being into having core and memory overclocked simultaneously. Think I was far from winning the silicone lottery on these. I guess I have been spoiled by the two HD 6950s in 2011 that could be flashed to the HD6970 BIOS and run on max clocks without complains.
     
    [Edit: Oh, and my cards are 7 serials apart. I curse the store for that! My HD6950 were also following each others' numbers. =D]
    post edited by Morphevz - 2014/11/15 05:26:20
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    hanson1979
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    Re: 2x SLI GTX 970 FTW - asynchronous data 2014/11/15 05:38:09 (permalink)
    Hi,
     
    with the modification I did on the BIOS (made by myselft) the cards run sync and at mx clock and voltage without the need of any OC software right out of the box. I'll attach it if you're intersted. As you have double BIOS it's worth a try ;-).
     
    Good luck...
     
    https://www.dropbox.com/s.../evga_ftw_mod.zip?dl=0
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    Morphevz
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    Re: 2x SLI GTX 970 FTW - asynchronous data 2014/11/15 05:52:37 (permalink)
    Thanks, I'll take a look and let you know. =)
     
    Update: yup, it seems the asynchronous behavior was indeed due to TDP limitations on the BIOS. Your BIOS sure helped the data between the cards remain more in sync:

    I'm also pleasantly surprised to see my core clock stabled at 1531 MHz; unfortunately my memory won't go as far as yours and will artifact at 4001; so I had to keep it at 3875 (3900 would also artifact).
    I'm also surprised to see the voltage stable at 1,275v. I had done it also in the past but thought it was a bug. Now my question is, is this the max in can go? This, within safe values on water, of course.
     
    Additionally, I noticed a temperature increase from the stock BIOS to yours. My new max temp on water is now 55ºC with your BIOS - still, for the gains I saw in terms of performance, that's nothing coming from a 53ºC max on stock BIOS.
     
    I'll keep fiddling and trying to find the max stable values, but your BIOS already manage to provide higher stable frequencies than my previous attempts. Thanks for that. =)
     
    post edited by Morphevz - 2014/11/15 07:00:13

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    hanson1979
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    Re: 2x SLI GTX 970 FTW - asynchronous data 2014/11/15 07:10:21 (permalink)
    Nice to hear that it worked for you. Of course the temps are higher due to the increased voltage. For 24/7 safety I can't guarantee... I raised the total powerlimit to 250W. My cards throttle at about 95-98 % (about 240 W) anyway and to reach that I let the BIOS draw 80 W from the PCIe slot. With letting it at standard (66 W and 75 W max) they throttle at 215 W. 240 W is quite a lot for a 4 phase design. It would be nice to get an official statement from EVGA. Without the mod the cards do not clock like they should with the "FTW" mark in my opinion...
     
    Greets 
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