EVGA

So how do I get started?

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iNoToRiOuS
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2014/10/21 18:57:21 (permalink)
This will be later in the future, as of right now I do not have Internet, and can only game on 4G from my phone.
On the topic of this, how much bandwidth does folding use?
I have 2 phones, 1 with 4G for gaming, and 1 with unlimited 3G @ 200kb/ps.
 
 
I have experience in crypto mining, so I'd like so see what I can do here.
 
 
Questions:
 
What is the "speed" at which you fold called. For mining it was kh/s.
 
 
Is AMD or Nvidia faster?
 
 
How do you get evga bucks doing it?
 
 
How "Fast" can these cards fold at:
 
HD 7850
GTX 760
GTX 970
GTX 980
 
 
Hold much evga buck a month could I make with the cards:
HD 7850
GTX 760
GTX 970
GTX 980

I currently own the hd 7850 and GTX 760 and I plan on upgrading. If the 980 is significantly faster at folding, and if the investment is worth it if I'd get a decent amount of return, then I would get a GTX 980 over the 970.
 
 
post edited by iNoToRiOuS - 2014/10/21 19:08:38

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    Opolis
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    Re: So how do I get started? 2014/10/21 22:52:50 (permalink)
    Folding "speed" can be measured in points per day (ppd) and time per frame (tpf).  You can only make a maximum of 10 evga bucks per month no matter how much hardware you run ($5 for 750,000 points and $5 more for reaching 1,500,000 points).  If you are folding for monetary return you will be disappointed since that is not the point of folding. The bucks are a nice little bonus evga gives us and, as far as I know, evga is the only company that does this for any team.

    #2
    Zagen30
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    Re: So how do I get started? 2014/10/22 01:27:21 (permalink)
    PPD is the primary measurement of folding power, as it represents the amount of value you're adding to FAH as a whole, and is normalized across all projects running on a given piece of hardware (or at least it's supposed to be- architectural differences between the benchmark hardware and all of the hardware out there means this may not be 100% true for your hardware).  TPF is only really relevant when discussing a specific project, as different projects can have wildly differing runtimes for a variety of reasons.
     
    As to bandwidth, folding doesn't use much.  The work is broken up into discrete chunks called Work Units.  The client downloads one, has the proper core (the software that actually runs the calculations) process the WU, then uploads the completed work and starts the process over again.  Most WUs are at most 15 MB down and up, and ones that size tend to take several hours to complete, if not days on slower hardware.  Stanford has been beta testing a new distribution method where you essentially get a ton of rather short WUs, i.e. effectively streaming the work, but a) it doesn't appear to be anywhere near release to the public and b) I think each micro-WU is on the order of kB, and would still take a few minutes even on high-end hardware.
     
    Currently the 970 and 980 are the kings of GPU folding (when there isn't some wonkiness going on, that is), with both doing somewhere in the range of 250k-330k PPD.  Right now the GPU cores that run on Maxwell are not optimized for that architecture, and as a result both the 970 and 980 are within about 5% performance of each other.  Given the large shader disparity between the two, I doubt they'll be so close once the cores have some Maxwell optimizations in them.  No one can say when, or even if, those improvements will be released, and obviously there's no telling what sort of a performance boost the 980 would see and whether it was worth the price premium.
     
    I think a 7850 will do 50k PPD and a 760 will do around 60-70k.  I wasn't getting any solid Google hits, but that seemed to be the right range.  In the last couple of years performance between AMD and Nvidia has been roughly equal at most price points, a stark change from the few years before that when AMD was terrible.


     
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    #3
    kougar
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    Re: So how do I get started? 2014/10/22 02:10:40 (permalink)
    I won't rehash what was said above but just add to it... you need a minimum PPD of 50,000 to receive the max  allowed $10 per month. Any of those GPUs should be capable of that. A Titan Black is averaging 230K PPD with the proper Core 17 projects, so a 970/980 will do even better. A 4770K should hit 10-15K PPD as well depending on how idle the system is. Regarding bandwidth usage the WU's are small downloads, but the complete Work Units that are uploaded can be in the tens of megabytes range. A year ago I saw some WU uploads hitting 50MB in size, not sure what they are today.
     
    F@H isn't about RoI, for a lot of users the $10 EVGA bucks won't even offset the electric costs (I'm not complaining in the slightest, I'm very happy to be receiving anything for my folding contribution). It's just something to have fun doing, push the hardware with, see who has the faster system, or donate spare system processing to a good cause. I also happen to personally enjoy it because it actually showcases what overclocking can do for system hardware in a fashion that synthetic benchmarks just can't do..
     
    If you're still interested it is as simple as snagging the v7 client and installing https://folding.stanford.edu/home/ You'll need to match your EVGA forum name to your F@H name to receive EVGA bucks, and also get yourself a passkey here which you need to add during your folding setup. https://folding.stanford.edu/home/faq/faq-passkey/ Personally I suggest configuring the CPU client to limit to 4 threads for any Intel quadcore w/ HT, it won't drop CPU PPD by much but it lets the GPU client leech CPU overhead freely for best performance. Typically the Core 17 GPU projects will want 1 to 1.5 dedicated CPU threads free. 


    Have water, will cool. 
    #4
    iNoToRiOuS
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    Re: So how do I get started? 2014/10/22 05:48:19 (permalink)
    Yeah, I'm not in it entirely for the money, but 10 EVGA bucks is 10 EVGA bucks. Even when I did crypto mining, I mined dogecoins just for fun. I still haven't sold any of them.
     
    I would be nice to see in the future, reading in some school text book years from now, that we were the ones to help this.

    #5
    yodap
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    Re: So how do I get started? 2014/10/22 06:09:07 (permalink)
    Look at the bucks as coupons. I recently had enough "coupons" to get a GTX 970 shipped for about $300. Before that, a Tegra Note 7 shipped for about $100. I tend to use mine when I need them but others like to save them and hit a home run with them.


     

     
    #6
    Opolis
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    Re: So how do I get started? 2014/10/22 09:59:02 (permalink)
    Yeah, I think most of us save them for a good sized discount on upgraded hardware, which in turn can be used for more folding.  Basically you can get a new GPU once a year for $120 off.

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    dave851
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    Re: So how do I get started? 2014/10/22 15:32:28 (permalink)
    Opolis
    Yeah, I think most of us save them for a good sized discount on upgraded hardware, which in turn can be used for more folding.  Basically you can get a new GPU once a year for $120 off.



    Yea thats mainly what I do, its just a little easyer for me to justify spending $300 then spending $500 on a video card even tho I know I'm spending more in electricity. 
     
    As far as set-up, you just need to download the new v7 client, plug in your name, team and passkey and off you go. 
    #8
    notfordman
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    Re: So how do I get started? 2014/10/22 17:51:35 (permalink)
    Some very good info given above. We also have a folding section under the community tab at top of forum, with useful info.
    It is also where your evga folding points for the month are shown, and also where you claim your bucks. We will be glad to have you aboard, when ever your ready. Welcome.
    http://www.evga.com/folding/ 
    #9
    Tropickz
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    Re: So how do I get started? 2014/10/22 23:25:43 (permalink)
    Folding can also be done with the CPU, so if you have hyper threading your golden.

     

     
     
     
    #10
    Zagen30
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    Re: So how do I get started? 2014/10/23 01:21:20 (permalink)
    Tropickz
    Folding can also be done with the CPU, so if you have hyper threading your golden.


    HT doesn't help that much.  FAH pegs the FPUs in a chip pretty hard as it is, so there isn't a lot of leftover processing power for extra threads to use.  The performance gain is usually around 15% over no HT, which is nice if you have it, but not all that great if you were looking at it strictly from a cost perspective.
     
    HT does help for feeding GPUs, though.  Dropping from 8 to 6 threads on an i7 won't drop your folding PPD all that much while likely being enough to feed two GPUs without bottlenecking them.  If you had an i5, you'd probably have to reserve 2 full cores, which would really crimp your performance.  Of course, CPU PPD is so much lower than GPU PPD right now (and for the foreseeable future) that it doesn't make too much of a difference either way.


     
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    #11
    iNoToRiOuS
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    Re: So how do I get started? 2014/10/24 07:22:26 (permalink)
    So how good does an 8350 fold at?
     
    Are GPU's king, just like in crypto mining?
     
     
    Also, how much better does a GTX 980 fold over the GTX 970 with the extra cuda cores? Will it be faster in the future?

    #12
    Zagen30
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    Re: So how do I get started? 2014/10/24 11:32:48 (permalink)
    I addressed 970 vs. 980 in the third paragraph of my first post.
     
    CPUs can have a wide range of PPD figures since some projects scale better than others.  From what I just checked, an 8350 can be as low as 12k PPD and as high as 28k.  I'd expect 20k to be about the norm.
     
    GPUs are definitely king unless you have a multi-socket server, and even there that advantage will be going away come February 1.


     
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    #13
    dave851
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    Re: So how do I get started? 2014/10/24 13:32:13 (permalink)
    Zagen30
    I addressed 970 vs. 980 in the third paragraph of my first post.
     
    CPUs can have a wide range of PPD figures since some projects scale better than others.  From what I just checked, an 8350 can be as low as 12k PPD and as high as 28k.  I'd expect 20k to be about the norm.
     
    GPUs are definitely king unless you have a multi-socket server, and even there that advantage will be going away come February 1.




    Just to add onto this, if you want actual numbers my overclocked gtx 980 will run around 300-320k pdd when overclocked to 1500mhz core.
    post edited by dave851 - 2014/10/24 13:33:32
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    iNoToRiOuS
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    Re: So how do I get started? 2014/10/25 06:51:08 (permalink)
    Okay, so I let it run overnight, and I have 20,000 PPD
     
    I have the slider to full, and my GPU is at 99%, but my CPU is not working.
    The status says "ready" but it isn't downloading anything.
     

    #15
    yodap
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    Re: So how do I get started? 2014/10/25 07:03:57 (permalink)
    Did you put any limitations on the number of cores to use?


     

     
    #16
    iNoToRiOuS
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    Re: So how do I get started? 2014/10/25 07:21:21 (permalink)
    How do I set that, or remove it?
     
    In the setup, it was at -1, I just changed it to 8, and still no change. Do I have to restart the client?

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    yodap
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    Re: So how do I get started? 2014/10/25 07:37:33 (permalink)
    It will use all cores if you leave it -1. (Default) If you want to limit the cores, you could set it to 6 and use 6/8 for example. If your GPU is folding a core 17 or 18 project, then that is what you should do.
    As to why cpu isn't running I'm not sure so just throwing out ideas.
     
    A screen shot would be helpful but I think you need 5 more posts (50) to actually post one.


     

     
    #18
    iNoToRiOuS
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    Re: So how do I get started? 2014/10/25 08:00:09 (permalink)

     

     
     

     

    post edited by iNoToRiOuS - 2014/10/25 08:03:29

    #19
    yodap
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    Re: So how do I get started? 2014/10/25 08:25:23 (permalink)
    Ok something's wrong based on the ppd of that card. Should be about 75,000 give or take.
    If that was me I'd right click on the gpu slot and click finish. Then go to configure>slots click on the CPU and click remove and then let the current GPU work unit complete. Nothing else should start and then close the client and restart it. When it starts again you should get a new GPU work unit.
     
    As I type I realize that you probably don't have 10 finished work units yet (no qrb bonus) so the ppd may be correct. But the estimated TPF seems too high anyway.


     

     
    #20
    iNoToRiOuS
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    Re: So how do I get started? 2014/10/25 08:28:20 (permalink)
    So should I finish this one then, or let it go? I had it running overnight.

    #21
    yodap
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    Re: So how do I get started? 2014/10/25 10:42:46 (permalink)
    I would finish it and it will count towards your 10 and you'll get some points. Also make sure the rig doesn't go to sleep or the Hdd's turn off.


     

     
    #22
    notfordman
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    Re: So how do I get started? 2014/10/26 12:19:47 (permalink)
    Just for comparison's sake, I completed [3] 9201 wu's  on a 780ti.
    Avg. TPF= 2:15  PPD Shows : 203,000 and credit= 32,000 each.
    I think they took around 3 1/2 hours per WU to complete.
    Hopefully as the WU runs the TPF decreases as the PPD increases.
    #23
    kougar
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    Re: So how do I get started? 2014/10/27 05:00:12 (permalink)
    Remember you need to fold 10 projects successfully using your passkey before that passkey becomes eligible for early return bonuses on projects. Core 17 gains most of its PPD from the early return bonuses.
     
    Regarding the CPU issue, closing FAH down completely and restarting it should prompt it to actually begin downloading a CPU project. For whatever reason in recent weeks I've noticed a similar issue with my own CPU clients occasionally hanging at the new WU download prompt for no reason whatsoever.


    Have water, will cool. 
    #24
    iNoToRiOuS
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    Re: So how do I get started? 2014/10/27 06:14:01 (permalink)
    What is a Work Unit?


    Is that what the green bar represents? % completed on only 1 work unit?

    #25
    kougar
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    Re: So how do I get started? 2014/10/27 06:26:18 (permalink)
    Yes. Each project iteration downloaded is one work unit or "WU", once the green bar hits 100% it wraps the results back up and sends them in while snagging another WU from the assignment server. 


    Have water, will cool. 
    #26
    iNoToRiOuS
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    Re: So how do I get started? 2014/10/27 14:18:59 (permalink)
    Well, twice now I forget to finish it. I had it paused and resumed several times.
     
     
    Is there a way to abandon the current WU?

    #27
    dave851
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    Re: So how do I get started? 2014/10/27 16:01:05 (permalink)
    iNoToRiOuS
    Well, twice now I forget to finish it. I had it paused and resumed several times.
     
     
    Is there a way to abandon the current WU?




    Well its bad practice to abandon wu's. And that finish button is for if you want to finish your current wu and not start another wu.
    #28
    iNoToRiOuS
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    Re: So how do I get started? 2014/10/27 17:39:49 (permalink)
    dave851
    iNoToRiOuS
    Well, twice now I forget to finish it. I had it paused and resumed several times.
     
     
    Is there a way to abandon the current WU?




    Well its bad practice to abandon wu's. And that finish button is for if you want to finish your current wu and not start another wu.




     
    How would I start another? I still haven't gotten the GPU up to full speed, and the CPU won't even start.

    #29
    dave851
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    Re: So how do I get started? 2014/10/27 21:59:37 (permalink)
    iNoToRiOuS
    How would I start another? I still haven't gotten the GPU up to full speed, and the CPU won't even start.



    Once the wu is completed, the client will automatically upload that unit and start working on another as long as you did not hit that finish button. If you want the program to keep on folding work unit after work unit just hit fold, the status should be "Running". Keep in mind that some work units are pretty slow, most notably core15. It will also take 10 eligible work units until bonus points kick in. As for the cpu, if it is still hung then you should try to delete the folder that the core that this work unit is using. This data will be stored in "%AppData%\Roaming\FAHClient\cores". There will be a few more folders that are nesting in each other but evently you will see something like Core_a3.fah or Core_a4.fah. Not 100% sure about what cores amd cpu's will use so I can't say exact file-paths. Once you find these folders, delete the entire folder(make sure fah is not running, it will also sit in the taskbar after you close its window). Once you restart the program it should re-download the core. If that fails then last resort would be to delete the work unit. They are in "AppData\Roaming\FAHClient\work" the folders are numbered the same way they are in the work queue. So going by the picture you posted, it has id 02 and that will be its folder name. Delete that folder and it will go get another work unit. 
     
    For the gpu, are you seeing 100% gpu use or at least 75-80%? Also make sure the clock speeds are right and its not down clocking for some reason. 
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