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Anyone have issues folding with Z87 Classified Motherboards and 290X TRIX cards?

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imaniceguy67
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2014/06/07 01:17:43 (permalink)
I've run into an issue that I can't seem to find an answer to.  Has anyone encountered an incompatibility between Z87 Classified motherboards, 290X TRIX GPU, and version 7.4.4 of the FAH client?  I suspect I've got a BIOS setting wrong or something for the Z87 Classified Motherboard because I'm having extreme instability issues with all the machines that are using those motherboards with the 290X TRIX cards.
 
Here is the background.  This will be a long post unfortunately. 
 
I've got six computers that are now being used to only fold.  They all have Z87 Classified motherboards, I7-4770K CPU's, 16 gig Corsair memory, two 290X TRIX cards in each machine.  Three of the six computers have 1200 watt Corsair PSU's and Samsung SSD's.  Three have 1300 Watt Antec PSU's and intel SSD's.  All the machines are running Windows 7 x64.
 
So the six machines are nearly identical but the two things they have completely in common is the motherboard and CPU.  What is happening is that I can not keep any of these machines folding for any length of time without getting video driver failures that become so severe that I can't remote into the computer anymore (via TeamViewer) and it actually requires a physical reset to get the machine to reboot.  If the machines will run 12 hours that is major victory.  Most of the time they won't run for 3-4 hours.
 
I'm very new to folding so bare with me.  I first noticed an issue when I saw what I would call hung WU's where the client would show 99.99% complete and then sit there forever.  After some research and looking in the log I saw the client GUI and the logs were out of sync so I started using that as a clue to something being wrong.  Usually a video driver failure. 
 
I had read to down clock my GPU's and they would be more stable.  So that is what I did and for literally three weeks I have been down clocking the GPU's on all the machines and there would be times they appeared more stable but then they wouldn't run for 30 minutes without getting out of sync again due to driver failures.
 
So then I started to wonder if the GPU's would run at any speed so I moved them to their lowest settings 520 core speed and 650 memory speed and I had the same issues.  So it appeared I couldn't keep the GPU's running at even their slowest clock speeds.
 
After many messages in the FAH forum and others here is a partial list of the things I've tried and it has not seemed to make any difference at all.
 
1) under clock the GPU's
2) under clock the RAM
3) disable CPU folding
4) change GPU's from machine to machine.
5) change GPU slots in the machines.
6) try different power plugs on the Antec PSU to make sure I'm not overloading a rail.
7) change the BIOS so PCIE2 is used instead of PCIE3.
8) enable crossfire (they had been running disabled)
9) run stress tests on the RAM (no errors found)
10) swap memory from machine to machine.
11) reinstalled Windows
12) after a fresh Windows install went straight to 14.4.
 
I'm sure there are others but you get idea.  Literally nothing I have tried has made any difference what-so-ever.  I can't imagine I've got motherboard issues since I mined with these same machines prior to moving them to folding and they ran for weeks unattended.  Now they can't stay up for half a day without having most of them either hard lock or become so corrupted they can't reboot.
 
Regarding the BIOS, all the machines are on 1.08 and all settings are default except memory speed and CPU C section which is now disabled.  I can't remember exactly what the CPU C section was called but EVGA support had me disable it.  Unfortunately the BIOS change hasn't seemed to help either.  They also suggested I make a post here.
 
Has anyone run into anything like this?  I suspect it is a BIOS setting but I have no idea which setting so I'm hoping someone has seen this before.
 
Another thing that makes me suspect the BIOS is that I've got two of the same GPU's in an older machine and is running a different motherboard and they run fine.  No issues what-so-ever although they are under clocked slightly they will run for days without incident.  I've swapped the GPU's between the machine using an older motherboard and a machine with the Z87 motherboard and it made no difference.
 
Any help would be greatly appreciated!
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
post edited by imaniceguy67 - 2014/06/07 02:28:58
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    Punchy
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    Re: Anyone have issues folding with Z87 Classified Motherboards and 290X TRIX cards? 2014/06/07 04:44:34 (permalink)
    It sounds more like a video driver problem to me.  Have you tried different driver versions?
     
    How long will it run with a single card installed?


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    planetclown
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    Re: Anyone have issues folding with Z87 Classified Motherboards and 290X TRIX cards? 2014/06/07 04:49:48 (permalink)
    Sounds like the GPUs are switching from 3D clocks to 2D.  I don' t know if the 290x has the option or not, but try setting the Power Tune in Catalyst Control to +20.  That's helped me maximize efficiency on some DC projects on a 7950.  Although mine didn't switch clocks, but may still be something to try?

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    Xavier Zepherious
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    Re: Anyone have issues folding with Z87 Classified Motherboards and 290X TRIX cards? 2014/06/07 05:34:00 (permalink)
    Check client communication with server
    https://foldingforum.org/viewtopic.php?f=74&t=25341#p253190
     
    post log file
    also helps to have verbosity in the client set to max (5)
     


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    bcavnaugh
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    Re: Anyone have issues folding with Z87 Classified Motherboards and 290X TRIX cards? 2014/06/07 07:56:30 (permalink)
    Do you have Crossfire enabled? My 2 R9 290X Fold much better and more stable with Crossfire Disabled.
    Also the current Driver Catalyst Software Suite 256 MB 14.4 4/24/2014 Download is stable for Folding as well.
    I use version 7.3.6 of the FAH client software, for me 7.4.4 is to complex or is it simple to use.
    I Do Not Overclocking the GPUs while Folding and or Crunching.
    post edited by bcavnaugh - 2014/06/07 08:07:12

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    imaniceguy67
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    Re: Anyone have issues folding with Z87 Classified Motherboards and 290X TRIX cards? 2014/06/07 13:06:07 (permalink)
    Thanks for the replies guys!
     
    @Punchy:  I actually have what I would consider one of the most unstable of the six machine running with a single card right now and it has run flawlessly for about 14 hours which for that machine is quite an accomplishment.  Both cards are still psychically in the machine but I removed the slot for the 2nd GPU to see how it would work.  I did wait for the WU to complete first and that actually took two days because of all the instability issues.
     
    It certainly could be a driver issue but if it is it seems to be specific to the machines I mentioned in the original post.  I have three other much older machines that are running with no issues and two them are running the same GPU's as the "troubled" machines.  It is just the newest batch of machines that are having the problems.  Ironically the three older machines are also multi-purpose machines and they do a lot more than just fold.  Odd that they are the stable ones...
     
    I started with 13.12 and that was where I ran into the problem initially.  So I switched to 14.4 after I did a full uninstall of 13.12.  That is where I'm currently at.  I did try 14.6 beta but that caused some of the machine to go into a repetitive reboot cycle so I had to fall back to 14.4.
     
    @PlanetClown:  I'll set it in MSI Afterburner.  It certainly can't hurt!  It would seem odd that only specific machines need it but I'll set it anyway!
     
    @Xavier: I'll change the client settings to more verbose logging and post logs in the next couple of days.  I'll try to focus on one machine because I suspect whatever we find will apply to all of them.  I have checked for errors or warnings in the client logs and the only time I've ever seen any is when one of machines "lost" the 2nd GPU.  Otherwise I literally never see anything in the logs.
     
    @bcavnaugh:  I enabled crossfire on one of the troubled machines to see if it would make any difference.  It didn't so I disabled it again.  The only FAH client I've ever used is 7.4.4 so I really don't know how it compares to the others but it seems pretty straightforward.  Maybe I should drop back to the client you are using.
     
    All my GPU's are set to core 940 and memory 1200 so they are actually underclocked compared to their factory settings (core 1040, memory 1300).  I have found through all this experimentation that they are actually more stable at these speeds than they are at lower clock speeds.  Underclocking them more seems to make them far more unstable.
     
    Thanks for the idea guys!  I'll work on getting some logs.  I have submitted logs to the FAH support forum and they said folding is working as it is supposed to.  There isn't any sign of the trouble in the logs so far.
     
     
     
     
     
    post edited by imaniceguy67 - 2014/06/07 13:10:31
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    notfordman
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    Re: Anyone have issues folding with Z87 Classified Motherboards and 290X TRIX cards? 2014/06/07 14:01:36 (permalink)
     "I'll try to focus on one machine because I suspect whatever we find will apply to all of them." 
     
    That's what I was going to suggest to make it a bit easier, until a fix is found.
    What motherboard is it on the older tech that is working?
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    planetclown
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    Re: Anyone have issues folding with Z87 Classified Motherboards and 290X TRIX cards? 2014/06/08 05:39:31 (permalink)
    bill1024
    I will throw this out there, I have found stability issues sometimes can be fixed with a bump in voltage.
    I run my memory bumped up a notch and my CPU, QPI/VVT IOH all run up a notch for stability.
    Could the cards be getting a little less power on those boards where stability is a problem?
    Can you bump the voltage on those cards up a notch and see? Keep an eye on the temps.
     
    You are not using any kind of power splitter that came with the video cards are you?
    You want to use 2 separate power leads from the PSU to each card. That is if the card has two plugs.
     
     


    +1  We're on the same wavelength Bill, and why I suggested the PowerTune setting.  Good thought on the splitters, hadn't even crossed my mind.

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    imaniceguy67
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    Re: Anyone have issues folding with Z87 Classified Motherboards and 290X TRIX cards? 2014/06/08 09:54:19 (permalink)
    @notfordman:  The motherboard of the machine that will run with two of the GPU's without incident is an ASUS Sabertooth P67.
     
    @bill1024:  Great suggestion!  You have been doing this for a long time so if you think it could help I will do it.  I have not tried to specifically overvolt the cards.  I did set the power tune to +20 and I still had a couple of incidents over night.  I have never overvolted anything though so I have no idea how I should do that.  I'll look it up now.  I've noticed overvolting is not enabled in MSI Afterburner for my cards but their is a place to override it in the settings.  I just don't want to burn the house down!   I am available to watch the temps today though.
     
    I'm only using power cables that actually came with the PSU's although they are split so-to-speak.  Two plugs for the GPU that goes back to a single plug into the PSU.  I can try to swap them out for other cables but I don't think I have enough single plug cables to cover all the GPU's.  I should be able to test it on one system though.
     
    The GPU's are plugged directly into the motherboard.  No risers are in use.  I actually tried powered risers from several different makers and never could get them to work with these cards but that is different story.  That is actually how I ended up with six machines with only two GPU's in them...  UGH
     
    The power settings in Windows are set to "Never".
     
    I'll start with the overvolting and then literally changing out the power cables.
     
    @planetclown:  I've set PowerTune on the command line while mining but in MSI AB there is a setting called Power Limit which I set to +20.  Do you know if it is the same thing as Power Tune.  I assumed it was but maybe it isn't.
     
    Updated info on run test:
     
    I mentioned I was running one of my most unstable systems with just one card folding although two cards are actually in the system.  With only one card folding it has not had an issue for over 36 hours now.  On that system running 36 hours is a milestone.  I believe for whatever reason it can handle one card just fine but it doesn't like two.  I'm not sure exactly what that means but it is clearly stable with one card and highly unstable while folding with two.
     
    Does that support the voltage idea?
     
    Update:  I've overvolted one of my machines.  It appears that MSI AB is forcing voltage moves of what appears to be 6.5 mV increments.  So I moved it to 6.5 and I've also increased the Power Limit to +30.  This was done on just one machine.  I'll report what happens.  GPU temps do not appear to have been impacted yet.
     
     
     
    post edited by imaniceguy67 - 2014/06/08 12:22:57
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    imaniceguy67
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    Re: Anyone have issues folding with Z87 Classified Motherboards and 290X TRIX cards? 2014/06/08 22:20:36 (permalink)
    Just a quick update.  The computer that I overvolted failed within 8 hours.  It was actually hard locked and I had to physically hit the reset button.  This is one of those things that I actually find completely maddening because every time I think I'm getting closer to stability my computers laugh at me!
     
    I appreciate all suggestions because frankly I'm out of ideas.  The computer I mentioned that is running a single GPU but actually was the most unstable of my machines, is still churning along quite nicely.  No issues.  This is the machine that has two GPU's in it but is only folding with one GPU for this test.
     
    Tomorrow I'll look for a window that allows me to switch GPU's on the machine that appears to be working with one active GPU.  I'll see if it works equally as well with the "other" GPU.
     
    I also increased the Power Level to +50 and the overclock to +26.  I don't know if I'm overdoing it but I won't go any higher than this.  I know I can hurt the hardware by doing this I just don't know at what point.  GPU temps still appear to be stable.
    post edited by imaniceguy67 - 2014/06/09 08:29:12
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    imaniceguy67
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    Re: Anyone have issues folding with Z87 Classified Motherboards and 290X TRIX cards? 2014/06/11 10:49:34 (permalink)
    Another update:  I swapped PSU cables on two machines late last night to single plug cables and spread them out more on where they plug into the PSU. Both machines were down again this morning. So it apparently didn't make a difference. Tonight I'll try a supplemental PSU but I have to rob it from another machine to use so I'll only try it for a day or two.
     
    The machine where I switched to folding on the 2nd GPU is folding fine still for over 48 hours.
    post edited by imaniceguy67 - 2014/06/11 11:40:58
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    imaniceguy67
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    Re: Anyone have issues folding with Z87 Classified Motherboards and 290X TRIX cards? 2014/06/14 10:31:09 (permalink)
    It appears swapping the cables also didn't help in terms of stability of the machines.  I still lose a machine or two every few hours.  It appears the machine that won't run more than a few hours with two GPU's active at the same time will run for days with either GPU running by itself.  The PSU is huge in that system but it is a 4 rail PSU (1300 Antec).  I've ensured each GPU is on a different rail but again it doesn't seem to make any difference.
     
    I also had the same instability issues with the single rail 1200 Corsair PSU's but they seem to have become more stable even though the hardware configuration has not changed on those systems.
     
    I'm starting to wonder if it has something to do with WU compatibility but at this point I'm not sure it will ever be resolved.  My free time to troubleshoot the issues will drop to next to nothing quite soon.  I will be all I can do to keep the machines running "most" of the time and then move to the GTX 880's if / when they come out.
     
    I appreciate all the advice!
    post edited by imaniceguy67 - 2014/06/14 10:33:05
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    texinga
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    Re: Anyone have issues folding with Z87 Classified Motherboards and 290X TRIX cards? 2014/06/14 10:47:32 (permalink)
    Looking through your list of things that you have done (top post and well done BTW), I didn't see anything about trying other Video drivers.  There have certainly been times when certain drivers (versions) on the NVidia side of things were not compatible with Folding.  Maybe step back or forward to a different driver version that the one that you are using to see if that has any effect?



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    imaniceguy67
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    Re: Anyone have issues folding with Z87 Classified Motherboards and 290X TRIX cards? 2014/06/14 10:56:41 (permalink)
    Thanks texinga!
     
    I started on the 13.12 drivers and that was where I first ran into the issues.  Then I moved to the 14.4 drivers hoping it would help.  It seems to have increased PPD but it didn't help with stability.  Then I tried 14.6 beta drivers and that actually was a mess.  I had continuous cascading reboots!  lol  So I fell back to the 14.4 drivers.
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    texinga
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    Re: Anyone have issues folding with Z87 Classified Motherboards and 290X TRIX cards? 2014/06/15 07:12:23 (permalink)
    Ok.  Yeah, we saw this once before with a Folder that used to be here.   I know that we all tried just about everything we could suggest and like you, he could not run (2) GPUs (edit: Fold on both GPUs) on the same mobo.  I never did read that he ever solved that issue either.  It may just be a mobo issue in the end, especially if you can run those same two cards in another mobo together without problems.  Wish I had an answer for ya...
    post edited by texinga - 2014/06/15 07:44:22



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    Punchy
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    Re: Anyone have issues folding with Z87 Classified Motherboards and 290X TRIX cards? 2014/06/15 08:54:57 (permalink)
    I know overvolting has been mentioned but I think you only tried it on the GPU.  It might be worth trying to bump up voltages on the motherboard that are most related to PCIe functionality.  I do not have a board of that generation but I'm sure there is someone here that can give you more specific settings.


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    imaniceguy67
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    Re: Anyone have issues folding with Z87 Classified Motherboards and 290X TRIX cards? 2014/06/15 09:09:17 (permalink)
    @texinga, it seems the machines are more stable now that I've put most things back to where I started from.  Higher clock settings on the GPU's (although still underclocked), enable CPU mining again, etc.  When I continued to drop things to find a stable point that just seemed to make things worse.
     
    I'm still contemplating whether I should just sell off one GPU in each machine and run them with one or whether I should keep running two and just fix them when I can.  I suspect the machines do more work with two GPU's overall but it has become a bit of a job to keep them running.  A job I unfortunately don't have time for much longer so the down time on the machines will increase a bit starting next week since I just won't be around to reset them.  I access them with TeamViewer but many of the GPU crashes actually make Windows so unstable that it can't restart on it's own.
     
    @Punchy, you are right.  I did not try to overvolt anything but the GPU's.  I'm certainly willing to try it!  I just don't know what settings need to be changed in the BIOS to make it happen.  My BIOS version is 1.08.  I've talked with EVGA phone support about this stuff before but they can't actually see the BIOS screens.  So they are essentially trying to guess based on another BIOS screen.
    post edited by imaniceguy67 - 2014/06/15 09:12:14
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    imaniceguy67
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    Re: Anyone have issues folding with Z87 Classified Motherboards and 290X TRIX cards? 2014/08/28 20:04:56 (permalink)
    This issue is now resolved with 14.7rc3 beta drivers.  It appears to have fixed all the issues I was having on all my computers.  So for the first time ever I'm folding with all my GPU's without constant driver crashes.  I just wanted to report on what finally resolved the issues I was having.  Unfortunately it took months to get things running but on the bright side they are running at full speed now.
    post edited by imaniceguy67 - 2014/08/28 20:07:19
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