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AnsweredLegal Advice

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Fbmbirds
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2014/08/20 07:37:20 (permalink)
Hello,
 
So Ive been dealing with some past issues in regards to my home getting new windows installed. Its been a little over a year since they got installed and I am having issues. I contacted the company I hired to do the job since they have a lifetime warranty for install defects. long story short I need to know what type of attorney I will need for a case.
 
 

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garetjax
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Re: Legal Advice 2014/08/20 07:47:35 (permalink)
If you have the original contract in which the company provided the service, then it's pretty black and white to me? Not sure why you would need a lawyer.
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Re: Legal Advice 2014/08/20 08:00:59 (permalink)
Because Ive took this all back to the company then they send people out to do the work and it is crap. Here check my thread out. http://www.houzz.com/discussions/1097073/I-got-new-windows-about-a-year-ago---Issues--
 
Its not black and white trust me.

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Re: Legal Advice 2014/08/20 09:18:57 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Fbmbirds 2014/08/25 09:14:24
This would basically be case around contracts law, not tort.  You contracted with them to do certain work, and the work either wasn't completed properly or it violates the guarantees of the contract in some other way.  Although it could technically cross over into tort law over certain aspects of warranties, it's still going to be considered a contracts case.  
 
You'll generally find that a lot of lawyers practice a number of areas of law, so it shouldn't be hard to find a lawyer to consult:
 
http://apps.americanbar.org/legalservices/findlegalhelp/home.cfm

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Re: Legal Advice 2014/08/20 10:07:43 (permalink)
Depending on the amount of your claim, you might try small claims court.  You will not need a lawyer.  Bear in mind, lawyers don't work for free.  At some point it is not going to be worth it even if you prevail in court.

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Re: Legal Advice 2014/08/20 10:21:17 (permalink)
Randolla
Depending on the amount of your claim, you might try small claims court.  You will not need a lawyer.  Bear in mind, lawyers don't work for free.  At some point it is not going to be worth it even if you prevail in court.


I tend to disagree. First consult a lawyer and see if the lawyer recommends a trial. It could be that the lawyer would read the contract, check the work and how it was done. Sometimes a letter from a lawyer to the contractor or business is enough to scare them into making things right. Make sure that you have an agreement with the lawyer that legal claims are to be paid by the business or contractor in question.

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Re: Legal Advice 2014/08/20 10:28:10 (permalink)
I just read your entire thread that you posted.  My best advice is to send them a registered letter and tell them in it that if these things are not fixed immediately you will seek any and all action against them to remedy the situation.  Start with the lack of a permit.  They should have either pulled a permit to do the work (if one was required) or asked to see one that you pulled PRIOR to the installation.  I would include in the letter a list of organizations such as news outlets and the BBB with their website addresses and phone numbers to show them that you are serious. You also need to include a reasonable timeframe for the work to be corrected.  I would also inform them that if they do not fix this within the timeframe you have indicated, that you will be taking them to court for the FULL amount of the window replacement.  You may be able to take them to court without a lawyer.  Based on the evidence that you have, I don't see a need for one.  You can present your case to the court just as you have done so in your other thread.  You may want to make sure that you file any needed docs properly.  You may be offered a chance at mediation before the trial.  It is up to you if you want to go this route.  You can always stop the mediation if you can't agree and still go to trial.  I also would suggest that you have another contractor come out and give you an estimate for the total repair.  Make sure that he accounts for ALL of the needed work.  Get a written list of what needs to be done properly so you can present it to the court and that is what I would ultimately settle for.  It may be a good idea to get two estimates.  I also might suggest that at this point you just squeeze some money from them and get someone else to fix the work. 
 
Good luck with whatever route you choose to go. 

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Re: Legal Advice 2014/08/20 10:29:33 (permalink)
rjohnson11
Randolla
Depending on the amount of your claim, you might try small claims court.  You will not need a lawyer.  Bear in mind, lawyers don't work for free.  At some point it is not going to be worth it even if you prevail in court.


I tend to disagree. First consult a lawyer and see if the lawyer recommends a trial. It could be that the lawyer would read the contract, check the work and how it was done. Sometimes a letter from a lawyer to the contractor or business is enough to scare them into making things right. Make sure that you have an agreement with the lawyer that legal claims are to be paid by the business or contractor in question.


I will agree with RJ to have a lawyer read over the contract and see what he says.  But I still think that you can do this yourself with the proper guidance.

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Re: Legal Advice 2014/08/20 10:34:47 (permalink)
Agree with Randolla on this, find someone that knows what their doing and just blow a full weekend to fix em. And file a complaint with the BBB & drop it. And count you looses, none of us need the extra stress of dealing with dirtbags....
 
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post edited by knightsilver - 2014/08/20 10:35:57
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Re: Legal Advice 2014/08/20 10:40:44 (permalink)
that's terrible man I could've done a better job than that good luck on getting it resolved hopefully no hurricanes will come in on you till you get it resolved
 
oh yeah I got a co-worker going through this mess in court its no fun.
post edited by jeffro66 - 2014/08/20 10:42:04

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Re: Legal Advice 2014/08/20 11:40:35 (permalink) ☼ Best Answerby Fbmbirds 2014/08/25 09:14:42
Randolla
rjohnson11
Randolla
Depending on the amount of your claim, you might try small claims court.  You will not need a lawyer.  Bear in mind, lawyers don't work for free.  At some point it is not going to be worth it even if you prevail in court.


I tend to disagree. First consult a lawyer and see if the lawyer recommends a trial. It could be that the lawyer would read the contract, check the work and how it was done. Sometimes a letter from a lawyer to the contractor or business is enough to scare them into making things right. Make sure that you have an agreement with the lawyer that legal claims are to be paid by the business or contractor in question.


I will agree with RJ to have a lawyer read over the contract and see what he says.  But I still think that you can do this yourself with the proper guidance.


Generally, it's going to be the amount of damage that tells you whether small claims court is appropriate.  If small claims is proper, many jurisdictions do not permit a lawyer in a small claims action.
 
Regardless, it's not a bad idea to consult with an attorney.  Even if you end up in small claims, the attorney can tell you what you should document, what you should focus on, and even what arguments you should make in your case.  Lawyers don't work for free, as Randolla stated, but many attorneys offer a free consult or reduced price for a consult, which can save you considerable money if you receive good advice.
 
Likewise, RJ's point about a letter sent by an attorney sometimes carries great weight, and can push things towards a settlement or an agreement without litigation.  That also ends up being cheaper.  
 
The point about an agreement with a lawyer and attorneys fees, however, is incorrect.  An attorney can charge hourly, flat fee, or contingency fee, but they can't guarantee that attorney's fees will be paid by the opposing party.  The contract between the OP and the contractor may have a clause agreeing to the distribution of attorney's fees, which is usually controlling.  Also, different state laws direct who should pay attorney's fees.  Ultimately, the decision on attorney's fees falls on the judge, whom is given wide latitude to apportion fees at the end of a case.  Assuming he or she can, there's no doubt that a competent attorney will ask for attorney's fees if his or her client wins the case.

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Re: Legal Advice 2014/08/20 11:56:01 (permalink)
In one of your pictures, it looks like they put a screw down in the sill. Bad bad. No one is supposed to drill holes in the window sill because that is where the water collects and will rot your walls or damage your wall finish. Most of the pictures look pretty bad honestly.

In my opinion, if you want it done right and want to be made whole again, those windows should be removed, water damage should be assessed and repaired, and windows which are still good should be reinstalled and windows with holes drilled in the window sills or damaged when removed should be replaced. The whole job of redoing it will be very expensive if done properly, in my opinion.

I would try the registered letter approach mentioned and if that doesn't get you far, attorney/lawyer up in my opinion. The installers clearly had no idea what they were doing. If you don't want to attorney/lawyer up, at least find a reputable contractor to asses the situation and stand behind you with expert advice. I almost think it would be better to get your money back and find someone else to do the job the second time.
post edited by ty_ger07 - 2014/08/20 11:58:38
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Fbmbirds
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Re: Legal Advice 2014/08/20 12:03:08 (permalink)
I called a lawyer and talked with him for a while. He decided to give me the number to the guy that built his house that is also a very good friend of his. The man is a professional contractor and home inspector. I am getting him to swing by and do a formal inspection taking note of all things that are wrong. He will then write it all up and I will simply provide that to the people that did my work and say either fix all of this or you will hear from my lawyer.

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Re: Legal Advice 2014/08/20 13:02:47 (permalink)
That sounds like a very good approach. Good luck! I have had a lot of work done on one of my houses over the last year and I appreciate how expensive everything can be and appreciate how bad it could feel when expectations are not met. I feel bad for you in your situation.
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Re: Legal Advice 2014/08/20 13:49:42 (permalink)
Great to hear Fbmbirds! Id still file a report with the BBB.
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Re: Legal Advice 2014/08/20 14:02:34 (permalink)
Fbmbirds
I called a lawyer and talked with him for a while. He decided to give me the number to the guy that built his house that is also a very good friend of his. The man is a professional contractor and home inspector. I am getting him to swing by and do a formal inspection taking note of all things that are wrong. He will then write it all up and I will simply provide that to the people that did my work and say either fix all of this or you will hear from my lawyer.


Yeah, the tricky thing about construction cases is how you handle repairing the damages and your conduct during the period of trying to get the contractor to fix it.  If the contractor isn't given a reasonable opportunity to fix the issues (I mean that in the legal sense, not the dictionary meaning), that may limit your ability to recover any or all damages.  On the other hand, you're not required to simply sit there forever if the contractor refuses to resolve the situation.  The biggest problems in these sorts of cases arise from the parties both breaching the contract.  For example, you pay the contractor in installments, they do shoddy service, so you refuse to pay them until they fix it.  In response, they won't work until you pay them.  Depending on the contract, and the events, that can create a sticky situation.  In your case, the work was already paid for, and you didn't create the situation yourself.  I'd say that you're sitting pretty well at the moment, as long as you don't do anything rash or ill-advised.
 
What you're doing is probably the best option for the situation.  Getting an estimate from a home inspector is very helpful to both you and a potential suit, if it goes that far.  Rather than threats about them not fixing a problem, the estimate will show both you and the court that you had the problems evaluated by a neutral party, and that you have an estimate for how much the damages will cost to be repaired.  Sometimes having concrete numbers (no pun intended) will make a reluctant contractor reconsider his position, as well as the fact that his/her shoddy work (or subcontractor's work) is now known by others.  Make sure you also get your letter to the contractor notarized and copied, as that will preserve the contents for notice later, and send it through registered first class mail.

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Re: Legal Advice 2014/08/20 15:03:57 (permalink)
Since you're in NC like me you have grounds for a damages plus labor costs.... Just need that contract and another estimate in NC boom you're good.... It's also more complicated then that but I went through something similar on a bathroom remodelling last year...

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Re: Legal Advice 2014/08/20 16:45:02 (permalink)
Fbmbirds
I called a lawyer and talked with him for a while. He decided to give me the number to the guy that built his house that is also a very good friend of his. The man is a professional contractor and home inspector. I am getting him to swing by and do a formal inspection taking note of all things that are wrong. He will then write it all up and I will simply provide that to the people that did my work and say either fix all of this or you will hear from my lawyer.


ty_ger07
That sounds like a very good approach. Good luck! I have had a lot of work done on one of my houses over the last year and I appreciate how expensive everything can be and appreciate how bad it could feel when expectations are not met. I feel bad for you in your situation.


Inspectors report especially if he is certified will be a good step. Tyger is right on the fix to do it the right way.
They may want to just re-calk or whatever, if you have had leaks they need to be addressed. Hope it's minimal water damage...
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Re: Legal Advice 2014/08/21 05:32:48 (permalink)
the damage was in fact minimal but my main concern was in regards to issues under the trim. They guys that came out to fix my weephole concerns didn't even bother to address this and instead notched out little channels. Then I tell the company about the poor work they did and want to come back and tell me that the weep hole issues were in fact addressed but my concern is with appearance. So I am sitting here looking at all the pictures and the email I wrote the company just to try and figure out if I was asking to much or in the wrong in any way because this company says on their website that they are the best in the business and do the best window installs in the area. I just know before I do anything else I am getting an official inspection and getting the report notarized to show that it is in fact the real deal.
 
I will try and work with the company but if they want to continue pushing blame some how to me then it will result into a law suite.

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Re: Legal Advice 2014/08/21 11:05:51 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Fbmbirds 2014/08/21 11:44:25
I think your best recourse right now is to wait for the inspection.  Not only will you have a better idea of how bad it really is, but you can also ask the inspector the sort of questions you mentioned in the above post.  Since the guy inspecting is also a contractor, he'll probably be a great source of information and advice on how to procede.

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Re: Legal Advice 2014/08/21 12:08:44 (permalink)
Sounds like lazy installers to me, or their management telling them to cut corners, Grrrrr!
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Re: Legal Advice 2014/08/21 12:24:52 (permalink)
finally got a response back from the window manufacture. Going to have a long talk with them and possible see if they could send one of their inspectors out as well. More eyes I can get on this the better.

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Re: Legal Advice 2014/08/21 12:42:59 (permalink)
Nice, keep us posted.

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Re: Legal Advice 2014/08/21 13:00:20 (permalink)
Seems like not the best company to deal with. 5 years ago I had all new windows and doors installed, 18 windows, 3 exterior single doors, and a set of exterior french doors. They were done in 2 days. In the first week one of the screens fell out because the frame was just too small for the window and one window wouldn't stay up because it needed to be adjusted. Both times they came out the next day and fixed both issues. They were courteous, prompt, and professional. I hope this gets resolved for you.

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Re: Legal Advice 2014/08/21 21:30:45 (permalink)
The first thing you should always do in construction disputes between a contractor and you is to 
Contact the Contractor Registration board of your state.
They will advise you on your next steps.
Some states have required bonded arbitration. So, if your state does, a lawyer will be a null point.
Also, some states require contractors to pay for a bond which the state holds while other states leave a bond in the hands of the insurance company.
If, in the end, you do not get this corrected, you may have to pursue the bond (Money held by a state or insurance agency for such situations).
By contacting the Contractor Registration Board, they will be able to tell you weather the contractor is insured, and if they are bonded and by who.
 
I will let you know that NO state lets you pursue the bond without first letting the contractor attempt to correct the problem.
 
A good lawyer will also tell you of your next steps, and what to do. (Sometimes they collect fees for advise that you can get yourself) 
 

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Re: Legal Advice 2014/08/22 05:50:27 (permalink)
I will admit that I have had issues in the past that were more of questions but still warranted someone coming out to at least have a look. Basically every time someone came out which were only like 2-3 times nothing was really wrong but the questions were answered. Then later on I had 2 more issues which 1 of them was a mistake on my part but I didn't want someone to come out and tell me that it was nothing. The other issue was that there was a big gap between the one window and just one. I still let them know and sent them pictures but told them I will simply caulk it to save the guys a trip since it was atleast a 30mile drive.
 
But then I get the water damage and ask that someone come out. It takes them a few days but once the person comes out they can see that there is poor work but insisted that the water damage isn't for sure caused by the window. Then he leaves and I later find out about the entire weep hole thing on all the windows so that gets brought up. Here I am knee deep in half real issues half fake issues and they want to shrug it off as me being that type of customer that isn't satisfied. Its like I paid them for 3 job and never had a problem with the other 2 but for some reason Im showing them real issues now in regards to what is currently going on with these windows and they want to bring up the past when those issues were a false positive. How do I recover from suck a mistake to show that I seriously have issues? I would have thought the pictures would be enough but they don't even see it.
 
Please tell me if you would accept what they have done to the trim if you paid for brand new windows and all new trim. Its like I cannot fight fire with fire. myself and the company owner must have to much pride to give in and just agree. I want to apologize and clear up the past but at the same time the issues I have right now are seriously viable and needed addressed correct but they were not and they don't see why I am upset.  

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Re: Legal Advice 2014/08/22 08:57:09 (permalink)
The best thing to do is stay on top of them.  Do everything in writing and keep it professional.  You do not want to end up in a he said she said type of argument.  When sending the letters, make sure you send them certified mail and do a followup letter every 30 days.  If nothing gets fixed, then have an attorney send the letters from that point.  After that, you might need to take the matters to court.  I can almost guarantee that it will settle out of court anyways.  Don't use their inspectors because that would be conflict of interest.  It needs to be an inspector that has no business/personal relations with you or the company.  I went through this with a flooring company several years ago and it took me three years to get my money back.  It was very frustrating but I am thankful that I did it because I now have a fully tiled house at that companies expense.  BTW, that company is now out of business.  Now days, if I just start sending certified letters and usually have it taken care of before I even get to the point of getting an attorney involved.  


#27
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Re: Legal Advice 2014/08/25 08:34:51 (permalink)
Added some new pictures to houzz and found out a few new things. It looks much worse than I suspected before. Waiting on the official write up from the inspector before making any contact with the company I hired to install the windows.

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DAVE2HOT4U
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Re: Legal Advice 2014/08/25 08:48:59 (permalink)
Make sure you get more than 1 estimate or you will be left waiting again and winter will be upon you !

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Fbmbirds
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Re: Legal Advice 2014/08/25 08:57:56 (permalink)
DAVE2HOT4U
Make sure you get more than 1 estimate or you will be left waiting again and winter will be upon you !





When you say estimate are you referring to the Inspector? I would hope the inspectors official inspection on paper would show the people I hired to install the windows that there is in fact issues. I am hoping this will show them that I am not just making up issues but there are issues found by an  inspector.
 
I mean in my defense the windows were installed less than 2 years ago and should have been done proper. How freaking hard is it do follow simple instructions when installing them? I guess since I don't install windows for a living I simply cannot fully comprehend the complex and in-depth procedures required to fully install the windows. I just want someone to be held accountable for the poor install and right now I am getting no where.
 

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