I have an off the wall, only had 4 actual hours of sleep in three days... Thought...
 
What if we did NOT have any handicap at all and create three ways to be winners if some award...
 

1. Highest Average from each team (Minimum 100 active folders during event).
2. Highest improved Average PPD of the teams members (Over last years numbers). New teams would focus on the other two...
3. Most improved overall 24 hour Average of the combined team production.
   1. This one is if the individuals fold under the team name, not chimps... Most new members gained during event that beat the average of that team. The team with the most new members wins. And of course to keep cheaters from creating another name (From any team) and simply folding under a new one... A rule could be this... For every Average PPD producer lost for that specific team (Easy to see from the last 120 days of production) a new persons production  is voided... In other words... Folder XYZ average the team avg for the last 120 days. Then as the contest gets going flat-lines... And a new member is now producing the AVG production. They zero each other out Count is still zero... Now say no members production drops and a new named producer is producing they are +1...

Hi to All!!!
Greetings from Russia!

In Mother Russia Proteins Fold You! 

Being a college student I completely understand getting no sleep. I get allot of my best ideas when im super tired too. 

Evening all. I've been folding for about 6 months and was looking for a team for the CC 2013. Been following the posts above - did anything get decided?

All I know is this... We will participate and we will win!
 
*Full disclosure* 
 
Not everyone's idea of wining is the same, with a single exception. And that is...
 
We must win the fight against all these diseases and cancers! 
 
And TBH... I really like a lot of the ideas tossed around in this thread, and I hope many CC Captains look at these and any others sooner this year for possible "Real" positive changes to the program.

Not sure how far ahead plans are with this but what about a qualifying first stage which splits teams into tiers. Then the second stage is the challenge for real. So the big boys all compete for tier one champs but there is still some kudos for the middle and smaller teams to be had.

Well... Then how about this...
 
Just have one main goal... For all to go after, this way we all win.
 
Just an example...
 
Say the goal is to produce 3 Billion points during the contest. All the teams are put in one single bucket chasing that goal...
 
Get rid of all the math, and all the bickering and all the handicaps. Because all the handicaps do is guaranty who will not win team vs. team. 
 
Let's go at this from a completely new/fresh look. Let's stop placing a box around one old idea.
 
We can then have internal races... Say, we want to give 1 billion of that goal, new members and bringing back previous folks... This allows each site can make internal challenges for those who like to be competitive...
 
Let us get this "Event" back to it's original roots... To draw attention, spread good will and frik'n KILL CANCER.
 
Heck... Run that idea past [H]. See if that would be what brings them back in the fold. As the #1 team in the world, their reach is far more significant than most!

An idea like the one that AB suggests could also help reduce the protracted formula negotiations that take so much of the CC prep time each year.  I do have to raise this thought, and please don't take it as poo-pooing AB's idea in any way.  If we all worked together as one large "world team" where there is no team(s) competition, would people think it lacks interest and say "we're Folding anyway, so why do CC"? 
 
I don't like the handicapping issues either, and AB's idea would require that people look beyond teams and go for the World Win.  I'm ready and OK with doing that and we do it every day when we stop to think about it.  But, if we could craft a new CC (based on all team's efforts) to drive even more science than we normally would, that would be a major "win".  I'm wondering what we could do to enhance interest in that kind of contest (assuming it would be acceptable to the other teams).  I envision a new set of CC Badges similar to the idea we use for our own Team achievements.  We could have multiple badges that represent multiple levels of outstanding achievement for our World team to target.
 
I'm just thinking out-loud too and it may be that the majority of CC participants want the contest to stay "as is" too.  Seems the first thing to find out would be what are the masses interested in doing?  Are they up for a major change or not? 

^^ To answer your question Tex & MIke... That is easy... Make it three internal races., Best of all three combined wins the APE... And below the "Assumption" would be that we get rid of the EVGA APES and users get the credit. Otherwise use the idea below with twists to make the idea of three internal races work if we keep the ape names. 

---

You measure the gains made by the teams. That is where the competition can come back... Leave the "Main event" as the world goal... Have the Championships for teams to go after these three. The best of those three combined Wins! It could be the best team for each category gets one point. So the winner at best, would have three points, and say the worst team (Say there are eight teams) is on the bottom of all three categories would be 24 points.
 

• New folders. This is easy to see what could go wrong. Cheaters just starting new user names. Well remember, all of this is built on trust. And that team that did that would still need to best all the other teams in at least one more of these challenges in order to win...
• Additional production over last years numbers. New teams get to take credit for every darn point. QRB one year will help the team stronger in GPU's than others, same as BIG is now on CPU heavy teams. So it is a wash.
• Old folders being brought back to fold. Self explanitory

Speaking just from the "contest" perspective, I think [H] actually came up with an effective response to Chimp Challenge.  They don't endorse the contest as a team, go over to other teams during the contest to lend participation and then reap a reciprocal benefit from those teams when [H] needs help gaining/holding the #1 Folding Team spot from us.  This not a "shot" at [H] either.  They are breaking no rules, don't have to get involved in all the politics/planning of CC and reap a benefit.    It is a complaint about the contest though because the handicapping is a joke if large producers/teams can simply band with other teams for an advantage.  To give an example, it would be like us having the "Folding Madness" contest where fair team sizes are set, but then allowing any number of people to amass on differing teams after the contest was started.
 
Those kinds of things that happen with CC (from a "contest" perspective) along with the stuff that XZ mentions above are why I don't favor participating in it.  Add to that the "handicapping" that typically results in our team having "no way to win" and the contest doesn't feel much like a contest to me.  If CC remains this way, I will bow-out from it this year.  I'm not trying to stir trouble for the contest and respect those that still want to do it as designed.  I'm just saying that I have lost interest in it as a "contest".  If it ever becomes something better than what it has become, then I'd be happy to participate though.

Well... This may not be a popular thing for me to suggest or say.
 
Before I go further, I fear if we create a poll for the team to decide if we participate or not. So we can see exactly what the majorities feelings are. That might create separation or sides. And that is counter productive. However it has tremendous value to "Know" at least at the moment the person(s) vote. We should think on that. And include options if they decide not to participate in 2013 CC. 
 
I suggest this because we are in the same position we had been last year. When we suggested to just let it roll and worry about changes next year. Remember? Take a look at the original date of this thread if you are not familiar with those thoughts...
 
Let us not forget. They did not allow us a voice two years ago when they introduced the Handicap. And then did nearly nothing last year because they failed to start the discussions early enough to make any reasonable changes. And a lot of teams had some really good ideas...
 
Let us also not forget, it does not do any of the other teams any good knowing they cannot win if there is no Handicap... The solution is out there... The Captains just need to get together sooner for the Contest life.
 
Just participating and taking it in the shorts again is NOT in the best interest of F@H. This statement is meant for both sides.. Small teams having no change, large teams having no chance...
 
With that said... 
 
I am pretty passionate about the work we do. It is why I struggle so badly with what to do with CC as a member of our team. I want to help Humanity first. Then the Team, then my personal wants. 
 
However, is our focus to win or participate in the spreading of F@H?
 
If it is to win, two years running the majority of the Captains with CC have proven they do not want us to have a chance in Hell to win.
 
If it is to spread the word on F@H, we need to ask them to remove us from the contest portion so we can focus on growing F@H.
 
As it sits, they cannot have both.
 
I may change my thoughts once others offer theirs... However at this moment in time, I will not participate with CC if a Handicap is in place that does not give every team a chance to win in the spirit of the "Contest" 
 
 

I've never had the opportunity to participate in a Chimp Challenge.  I watched last year as all the drama exploded into the whole challenge.
 
Frankly, if other teams want to handicap the folders here at EVGA then let them.  If it is handicapped so much that it actually makes it impossible for our group to even place, well then I see that as a demotivational factor right off.  It affects those willing to join in the fun as well as contribute to a great cause.
 
Me, I'm inclined to let it shake out and as Tex said, I'll decide whether or not it's worth my time to even bother.  My thoughts are if there is no chance for us to win a contest, then why burn the electricity for a challenge when I can do the same without a challenge.
 
Either way, I think with the apathy of some of the teams concerned in trying to work out a solution and the need to find a playing field where the heavy hitters are penalized etc.  the contest as a whole has become a sham.
 
Still, if the team needs me I'll do it.  Just saying I hate NOT having a chance to win. 
 
 

Had we shown up last year we could have won - 40% conversion (what's this - poor showing?) - if we had 60% would would have been in 2 or 3rd
 
Iv'e voiced my concern at the Captains forum with the speed and participation of teams in discussions...
we'll see if people get involved
 
 

Xavier Zepherious
Had we shown up last year we could have won - 40% conversion (what's this - poor showing?) - if we had 60% would would have been in 2 or 3rd

Given one of the oft-mentioned concerns about having to switch over to the Chimp names (here and on other teams), maybe some of the conversion results are indicative of people not wanting to switch their User name.  If we do have real problems with CC, then we can't wish it would be better each year.  We have to make it better by understanding what the issues are, and addressing those issues so that more people will want to participate.  I know that I'm really "preaching to the choir" here, so I'm just sharing thoughts.  Poor conversion could also be an indicator of people in general not feeling the interest or compelling reason to participate.