That looks like my french model date I met on the internet.

I for one am against locking any thread unless a TOS has been established.  That's just me.
 
Oh.. and I love you all... in a purely platonic sort of way. 
 
Keep doing what you do best folks... working as a team... finding the end zone.  One day the future will look back and say... thank you to all who came before us.

 I am going to make just a minor comment based on my limited knowledge and observation of this exchange.. 
 
Adak, with all due respect, I don't know you. in fact I don't know anyone really since I have been folding  all off about 2 weeks total.
 
I have to be be perfectly honest in saying that whatever you are offended by is not apparent to this reader. All the negativity you are crowing about seems to be emulating from you.
 
What I was reading, up till the point you posted your first book, was a team discussion about concerns. For what ever the reason, you took great offense that. You jumped in pointing fingers calling out peoples names and calling people out for being negative. Perhaps you read too much into things being said and took them as attacks on your person? I am unsure. the internet makes people paranoid sometimes.
 
I don't know how "leaders" of your part of the world behave, but your reaction is not how I would expect a leader to deal with a situation.  
 
Please take a few moments to step back and think things through before calling attention directly onto your self as if someone called you out by name. There really are more constructive and productive ways to interact with other people.
 
I apologize in advance if I offended anyone, it's not my intention. It just seems like over reaction to a non issue situation to me.

Adak1

I had to kind laugh after reading all that stuff from Adak.  Here we have someone that is:

• Basically "taking us to school" on how to view CC and properly react to the contest.
• Says he is the "designer" of this years handicapping formula.

No one except myself put up one number, equation, spreadsheet, or formula, for the points system this year. Xavier pointed out one error. The work is all original.

• Labels one of our best "contest mathematicians" (Troy) as having "limited intellectual rigor".

In this specific matter, he did not think it through. I'm not saying Troy's not smart, but he's not a handicapper, and his comment was untrue, and exceedingly negative. Because Troy IS respected for his math skills, lots of people might be persuaded to believe that the handicap system indeed WAS "hopelessly broken", and the FACTS simply do not agree.

Your team is a favorite to win the CC this year - and you're frequently earning more ppd than the #1 team is. That's what I mean by "you're a great team". That doesn't mean that I don't want [H] to challenge your team's run to the #1 team ranking. Looking ahead, I expect you will be the #1 team in FAH.

Which is why I'm mystified by the negativity I've seen in this thread. I believe it reflects poorly on your team, and on the CC, both. Sure, you had a poor CC last year - no doubt about it. That happens to every team, sooner or later. (OCF has had bad races, and you may remember how badly [H] fell apart three years ago in the CC?  Total crash and burn, forcing them to drop out of the race, completely!) Some negativity is normal in that situation. I believe it's time to turn away from that negative POV. Makes people wish you weren't going to be the #1 ranked team.

I've been on board for EVERY CC race. So yes, I believe I can share a little bit of CC race perspective.

I'm too old to care if you trust the handicap system I set up, or not.  It works. Undoubtedly, it will work better, with more actual race data.

 
 
Favorite to win?
more like.... it's better than last year for us
 
OCAU 3MPPD 
3 members of [H]  each doing 3MPPD
imagine OCAU getting a ringer or two or three? triple output ...
Im sorry EVGA can't go out and triple output to keep up to that
 
(sorry to members of [H] Im just using this as an example of how badly any handicap can be)
---------------------------------------------------

there was a number of formats, including last years format Adak
I posted every idea from EVGA from this thread
 
the fact is  there was little discussion at all (only from the three main teams) - and not much from the other teams
I even asked if anyone bothered to read or consider anything from EVGA - dead silence
 
Me and Devdog looked at you proposal early on the old capt's thread and Liked it...you went with
everyone seemed to like it or willing to give it a try..
 
I would have preferred it if everyone had talked about many options...
like all be in the same chat room every week for a whole night for a few months hammering out something rather than posting...waiting days and seeing only 2 people post?
 
this is why I don't like the capt FORUMS - the capts don't talk...the members don't see ideas or things discussed or how poorly the discussion is going
 
Last year.... Going to the teams directly and posting is better
we get many more ideas...many eyes on the issue and it keeps it hot and fresh on all the teams forums
---------------------------
 
 PS :
we have to start earlier
get more teams 
every capt must vote & discuss otherwise it becomes a 3 ring circus with the smaller teams having no say
Pester capts & the team forums religiously to make sure they are up to date,  items are discussed and Capts vote
 
Like say.... starting the day after this CC  
Im one for starting to think MPC has it right.... go back to the original CC
Chimp names and straight PPD
 
 
 

johnerz

Afterburner

Reporting for duty!

So it was YOU!!!! that I saw the other night whilst out having a few with my mates, and all along I thought it was only me having too much to drink   

Maaaaaaaybe 

Adak1 
No one except myself put up one number, equation, spreadsheet, or formula, for the points system this year. Xavier pointed out one error. The work is all original.

 
With all due respect, the idea of normalizing points to levels achieved on previous CC's has been mentioned on this forum many times.  The math is simple normalization, which is nothing new.  The only unique thing I see in your work is the idea of using the past 2 years' points.  

Punchy

Adak1 
No one except myself put up one number, equation, spreadsheet, or formula, for the points system this year. Xavier pointed out one error. The work is all original.

 
With all due respect, the idea of normalizing points to levels achieved on previous CC's has been mentioned on this forum many times.  The math is simple normalization, which is nothing new.  The only unique thing I see in your work is the idea of using the past 2 years' points.  

 
I proposed something very similar two this over two years ago.  I still believe its a good premise from which to begin, however, the construction of the normalization factor is critical and the rudimentary approach Adak proposes leaves a good amount of room for improvement. 

Adak1
If it wasn't for Xavier, there quite possibly wouldn't BE a CC, this year. He did a great job.

So, looking at how you are behaving here with the continued insults to our Team, I feel that we safely could say that if CC's success depended upon you, there would be no CC this year.  I think you are about the biggest phony I've seen in awhile and honestly I have no desire to participate in anything that you designed or is even remotely connected to you. 
 
You pontificate about the real reasons for CC, but then set about doing just the opposite by stirring up a bunch of negativity and insulting people at a major participating team.  Could you be any more disconnected from reality?  Also, don't try to feed us any malarky about wanting [H] to challenge us.  You are pandering to them in hopes they Fold for you in CC and then will repay then afterwards with helping them stay ahead of us in team standings.  Your team did that last year and you have already said the same this year in your own forum.  A "wolf in sheep's clothing" is how I see you and certainly not a person of honor or leadership.

Yes Troy, I don't know what is going on here, but this whole thing "smells to high heavens" for me.  I'm out of any CC that is designed by someone that I feel is this offensive and counter to what CC is supposed to be about.  My feelings have a lot to do with Adak's misbehavior here and what he is doing to harm what used to be a great contest between Folding teams.  When we have a contest that is designed to be what CC is supposed to be (without this kind of poor design and leadership) then I'll gladly participate again.  I just can't with good intentions participate in something this fellow has (according to him) created.  I do not trust him, nor that this contest was designed with the right intentions by him.  I love and respect you all, nothing has changed about the way I feel about this team.

troy8d

texinga

Also, don't try to feed us any malarky about wanting [H] to challenge us.  You are pandering to them in hopes they Fold for you in CC and then will repay then afterwards with helping them stay ahead of us in team standings.  Your team did that last year and you have already said the same this year in your own forum.  A "wolf in sheep's clothing" is how I see you and certainly not a person of honor or leadership.

'

That explains why he chose May and June team PPD for the 2012 Chimp Challenge - to smooth out and hide the influx in points from [H].  Now I am questioning the validity of this system as the stats from last year were "lost."  I wasn't involved in them last year, but its a good bet that Drougnor has a copy of last year's numbers somewhere.

And this, folks, is why I make redundant backups - All of the stats as far as the chimp names results as well as the collected team points for the contest last year are most assuredly not lost, and as a matter of fact they will stay online for reasons like this.
 
d

Yea calling people whiners is a real grand example of a true leader and positive spin on things..  Are you going to say "Cry More Noob"  next?
 
I am personally disgusted with this self proclaimed leader and with out getting nasty about it..
 
 i'll just say I don't think I want part of HIS contest either. I think it will end up being a smoke a mirrors race.. just "pay to win" as the coin phase goes. Not that my dinky little 80 - 100 k a day will matter all that much but I'll fold up to race day and stop.
 
 

I ran the numbers guys, you can see the difference between the 2012 "lost data" version and the version that uses actual 2012 Chimp Challenge data.  https://sites.google.com/site/chimpchallenge/
 
Note that Adak, the self-proclaimed designer of this handicap system, is a member of overclockers.com a team that stands to benefit from the "lost data" that uses team PPD from May and June.
 
Given that the handicap is based on the premise that the system as designed is not broken and the data was "lost," if there is no attempt to inherently bias the system in favor of overclockers.com then there is no reason not to use the proper data.  I would ask that XZ bring this to the attention of the other teams.
 
 
Adak's primary approach on our forum has been to intimidate and insult rather than engage in any meaningful discussion.  When the "lost" data was made known, his response was essentially "Stop whining I'm done talking about it."  There is an apparent bias in this handicap system from what Adak claims it to be.
 
I'll leave it to XZ to address the issue with the other captains.  Hopefully at the end of the day clear thinking will prevail.
 
EDIT: Also, note that I do not agree with using the system with the actual data anymore than I agree with using Adak's original numbers constructed when the data was "lost".  The overall design premise has promise, but more thought needs to be put into where it is exactly the numbers are coming from.
 
EDIT 2:  After a little consideration, I think it might be wise to cut Adak some slack here.  I think the majority of the problems with his design and the way he comports himself have more to do with ineptitude rather than intentional malice. 

Adak1

@Troy:
I know you're messing with me - the data from 2012 will be included and passed over to the Captain's forum for use, today. You don't REALLY believe I'd use projections in the handicap, when actual race data was available, do you?

 
I don't know what to believe regarding you at the moment.  You haven't exactly come across as reasonable and open to suggestions/improvement here.  Given that your immediate response was "I'm done with this forum" and nothing to indicate you had such intentions, I assumed you probably would but I am happy to find out that I was wrong.  If the actual numbers are used I have no problem with the contest.

That being said, however, I would like to ask if you would be willing to explore ways to improve how the normalization factor is derived.  The current numbers do nothing to factor in the change in contest format and provide a very skewed result.  Despite the fact that it favors EVGA this year, it is in the best interest of everyone to make things as fair and balanced as possible. 
 
 

Punchy

Be careful folks - don't let an outsider cause strife within our own team that distracts from our goals of fighting disease and reclaiming the #1 spot that someone else temporarily [h]olds.  If we lose participation due to this thread then we all lose.  

This x 1,000!!! We just need to, in the words of a certain Goat, "Crank it up, Folders!!"

 
 

My data was lost troy(due to Hiccup with google) - Zodacs? I don't know _ I assume because we asked Axipher
 
Thx God Drougnor keeps backups - I had told Adak to go to you for stats troy - I should have said drougnor
 
Will everybody cut each other some slack
This is what ruins the CC for me
 
everyone needs to chill it - including Adak
Some of you will have to get used to Adak's posting style a bit
 
You'd rather have Zodac's feedback- that was a lot more abrasive?- I got into a few tiffs with zodac on the OLD CC forums. The one whose formula was exponential? and didn't realize how bad it was 
And was trying to sell my own weighted normalized system


we did what we could with teams that have varying Ideas with what they would like to see (and when they rarely came in to talk or see)
 
We fair a lot worse in a straight % growth race that was banded about (thx god we dismissed that)
 
Adak system isn't any worse than anything else we seen 
it simpler -which is what the teams wanted and far easier to understand
 
Ya Id like to tweak it here or there - but anything you do requires people understanding it and then explain it to their members. tough sell... just like here 
 
and do it on a limited time scale considering I started this in FEB and nobody wanted to talk then (and we do it all in the last week again- by setting deadlines)
 
accept the unfairness - We have to fold anyways
we have other goals naming Passing [H] and any contest suits our goals on pushing our team 
even if it means swallowing something we don't like or think is broken or want improvement on
 
heck we take Ugly nasty medicine to get to well when you're sick
-so take the analogy here
take it..lump it.. and lets get to #1 again
 
Yes troy I mentioned in the capts thread we could have used last years with some modifications.
NO SELL -  the other teams drop that baby
they hated it - they couldn't understand it last year
 
Something I would have like to have and tried to Push - Possible Teams merge in the future rather than getting help from a friendly team
I suggested that - we could take NCIX and HWC and actual merge them - at least it be more honest
better than taking stats from HWC and then having a serious number from one team coming over to help another
it would require basing the handicap on both teams (and since we are using full teams a fair representation
 
 
MPC had enough with the bickering
 
they wanted it back to the original system and quit whining about it - life isn't fair
The reality is no matter what system we have ..with the huge differences we have...we will always have some unfair advantage or some complicated set of formula no one understands 
Stanford set the point system and scoring system...namely PPD 
 
I wonder how hockey or football would be if the underdogs were given double or triple the points when they scored?
life isn't fair - if you want to beat the top dog - gets some trades or new players before the deadline
 
 
 
if we want to fix it it would require all the teams to work on it from the get go STARTING NOW 
that's tough
 
no waiting... no rest...showing up on a regular basis to fix it at least 3-4 times weekly and maybe a weekly chat
maybe this will give them incentive to really talk(the thought of missing your lives for a few weeks might drive them to hammer out a consensus - rather than relying on 3-4 main teams to figure it out and then say nay or aye or saying that they got left out(and caused by lack of attendance)
 
OCAU - no input (Capt was away - I asked them to issue a new one - and we posted on their threads - I have no idea if they are in or out)
 
TSC practically none (it takes me week or two to get a response - and I we now have an interpreter - their capt required that)
Had to use Bosun when the other two TSC capts wouldn't respond a few times- and that takes about 1 week
 
MPC - out (want the old CC)
VGT - not much (new so not much input yet)
Bit-tech - show up a few times to get news - no comments - no voting
TPU  - did about the same as bit-tech
HWC - hey plugged in and they get the fact they need to participate in the discussions
 
we put deadlines up because nothing was getting resolved and basically wound up with a couple of weeks left with nothing(like last year)...
so 1 week to submit and vote on stuff - if you weren't there you were SOL
that doesn't leave much time for any discussion or feedback
so you see why we get a somewhat broken formula/format all the time
 
It's the mechanism we are using to figure it out
 
Im almost starting to think we need an outsider like stanford to run it and design it with sponsors because we all stinks when it comes to talking and designing with each other. we can't seem to get our heads around actually spending time to talk and work on it
 
 
 
TO Adak
Im with troy here...just chill a bit
Take the opportunity to talk and maybe derive a better system - rather than not allow any feedback whatsoever
Like I said it isn't really all that bad of a format - just need some future tweaking of the Handicap