zodac
Just to answer that bolded section...

Yes, the system I was working on was made to show that OCN ended up in first (using last year's numbers). My reasoning for that was pretty clear. I have three factors; this is how OCN fared:

csm725OCN

In the meantime, I can tell you what would help.
One post, whether it be here or in OCN's thread, with both zodac and Adak's current formula preferences, outlined and explained.
This would assist other members that just haven't seen both sides in their decision.

BOSUN

Hi to All!!!
I think, I can speak here on behalf of the team TCS!Russia. 
In general, we have come to a consensus within the team. We are would like to use  last year rules.
But...  Let's take one each team's best month average PPD as a base for Chimp Points. The best month is a month in last half of the year (November '11 - April '12), when the team got the most points.

troy8d

zodac
Just to answer that bolded section...

Yes, the system I was working on was made to show that OCN ended up in first (using last year's numbers). My reasoning for that was pretty clear. I have three factors; this is how OCN fared:

That's all I need to read to know that your interest does not lie in a system best for ALL teams and for the contest in general.  Very disheartening to witness how badly some of the other teams (not EVGA) get screwed over so you can achieve your stated goal.   

The results confirm this as the final distribution of team points is embarrassing if you make any claim that the contest is designed to give all teams as fair as possible a chance to win.  Please stop putting your own agenda before the greater good of both the contest, but more important the good it does to draw attention to the entire folding project.

I certainly commend you on your honesty and straightforward, forthcoming approach as well as the amount of time and effort you have put into working on this. Hats off to you!    (I also apologize if this post comes across as overly critical).

Regarding your other ideas: I actually like the conversion factor as part of the contest score.  I know it will hurt a team like EVGA, but I think its an important measure of contest participation and personally I would favor it.  As for millions of points produced, I don't know that it is a relevant measure...but it can be utilized in a clever way if we want to do that. 

I can't speak much to Adak's formula because all I have seen here is numbers it would produced and very little of the underlying theory upon which it is built. 

zodac
Put it this way; with the three criteria I've listed (total points, handicap points, conversion), who would you have in first instead?

Again, I was using last year's numbers - if Evga improved on their conversion rate (obviously 90%+ would be quite difficult, but 70% certainly wouldn't be out of reach, so there is room for improvement), or if OCAU improved on their overall points, then things would change this year. My point is that last year, OCN performed the best across the three factors.

I think you'd have a difficult time saying OCN weren't the best overall with the factors I've listed. If you think there are other factors that should be included, then I'm all ears, and we can adapt accordingly, but no-one's posted any other factors - just other systems.

Adak
Besides the whole team idea debate, Zodac (CC captain for OCN), wants a point scheme that favors the bigger teams.

zodac
owever, in a fair system overall, there would be some form of recognition (which would influence the result) of the fact that HWC only produced the 6th highest amount of actual points.

 
In her formula projection, big surprise, OCN would have won last year, instead of placing third! (I am shocked).

That is not a handicap race then. In a handicap race, every racer should reach the finish in a dead heat (all even), if they all give 100% effort.

A trophy for the biggest raw point producer during the CC would be fine, or even a separate bracket, with the winner of it getting a jaded monkey with a different color on it - but this attempt at an obvious skew to favor big teams, in the handicap race, is completely unacceptable.

We've been round and round with this, over at OCN, with very little progress. Zodac wants to use Zodac's formula.... yes, but it's skewed -- Zodac wants to use Zodac's formula... yes, but it's skewed.

It would really be hilarious if I was chatting with an echo bot - heck of an April Fool's prank to pull.

• First, are we still able to get the CC organized in such a short frame of time?
• Second, a contest format.

devdog51

texinga

Just another thought for general consumption.  I consider Chimp Challenge like unto the "Olympics of Folding".  So, why the aversion to having multiple categories of achievement from all of these Folders world-wide?  The one thing that really picked up my spirits this year for CC was when I began to see people floating the ideas of having multiple achievements from the contest.  That really added some interest to the contest for me that now seems to have reverted to the same old one way to win situation.  Just wanted to say that I feel that we have the opportunity to really make CC interesting and fun on some new levels.  That kind of stuff keeps it fresh and will attract people to the contest IMO. 

Since we already know that May is really on the hot-side for all-out Folding for many here in the US, why not take this opportunity to move it to October or some point when we can unleash everything we've got?  In May, where I live, it is already way too warm for me to unleash all my Rigs and all the GPU's in those Rigs.  I can already say that Folding in May for CC cannot be an all-out effort.  It is physically impossible to do with the heat levels that would come from it.  Moving CC to a cooler period, coupled with a fresh and interesting contest that is worked out well ahead of the start date sounds like a winning combo to me.

That was exactly the system I was thinking of. Split it into categories and divisions. It might seem more complicated at first but it really simplifies things. With this route you can almost throw out huge complex formulas and handicaps. Split it down by hardware, number of clients, average PPD, anything. Hell I can start working on a system like that and get it to you guys if you want. I wont have it done before may but I can write something up that should be pleasing to most. 

troy8d

devdog51

Well if were going to ignore OCN then to Adak's formula it is. The only reason why i went with Zodak's is that it looked to be the only thing that zodak would agree to for right now, without spending eternity arguing. 

Just my opinion, but going with zodac's formula does more harm to the CC than going the CC without OCN. 

I would like to emphasize that I very much hope this is not the situation we are facing.  Also, I speak only for myself and not any other individual or team.

troy8d
We have 9 teams? - Lets make 9 categories to compete in!    Everyone team gets to decide their own individual category they are competing in and change it at any point in the contest.   
  
All mocking aside, its not a bad idea if there is a unifying way to crown an overall winner.  3 or 4 or 5 or...individual winners seems kinda lame.  The draw is that any team can take focus on or take solace in their ability to compete in a single category, but there is still a semi-competitive nature to it.

csm725OCN

I think you, troy, are avoiding zodac's formula because you know OCN is a better overall team but can't admit it.

csm725OCN

I think you, troy, are avoiding zodac's formula because you know OCN is a better overall team but can't admit it.
Anyways, personal opinions aside, I'm still waiting for someone to tell me where I can find Adak's formula without his or your anti-OCN and everything related to it bias. I just want the raw data, zodac's formula is an option which was presented by texinga (no personal bias or reasons why it should be implemented); in the meantime I've only heard Adak trying to coerce and convince OCN into thinking he knows better, not a post that outlines his formula.
Re: moving CC to October, there is a Southern Hemisphere too, you know? ;)
Re: individual characters so smaller PPD folders will feel special, seriously? That's ridiculous. If you fold 10k PPD, do you think you should be influencing as much as someone who folds 150x your PPD is?
I understood your want to impress and satisfy everyone, but it just isn't possible!