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Any car stereo guys in here? 5.25 speaker question

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agent8
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2016/10/15 22:35:04 (permalink)
So I swapped head units in my Jeep and while trying to figure out what the heck the previous owner did to the stock wiring, I discovered that my front right speaker is blown and only the tweeter is working. I don't want to spend a whole lot since it is not a daily driver and I mostly run errands and climb around with it so it's not super important but still wanted to get some opinions.
I am looking to spend around $50 for a pair of 5.25 speakers. I already have an amp and a sub in the back so I don't need to have anything super bass heavy. My Kenwood unit is only putting out 50 Watts a channel so they don't need to handle a ton of power.
 
I have narrowed it down to these...
Kicker http://www.crutchfield.com/p_2064CS54/Kicker-40CS54.html
Jvc http://www.crutchfield.com/p_105CSDR520/JVC-CS-DR520.html
Kenwood http://www.crutchfield.com/p_1131365S/Kenwood-KFC-1365S.html
Pioneer http://www.crutchfield.com/p_130TG1345R/Pioneer-TS-G1345R.html
Rockford Fosgate http://www.crutchfield.com/p_575R1525X2/Rockford-Fosgate-Prime-R1525X2.html
 
I've been out of the car stereo scene for a long time but I know back in the day, Kickers were pretty good but I can't keep up anymore. Any opinions on any of these?
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    Mkkari
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    Re: Any car stereo guys in here? 5.25 speaker question 2016/10/15 22:46:02 (permalink)
    Nowadays with same price tag goes pretty side to side, they dont really change. What i am talking about is, it doesnt really matter which one you choose. All those is in the same line.
     
    P.s. car audio unit gives max 10w, with loads of clip. Proven ;)
     
    Edit: We got here different market so i can't really point anything from here. DLS, Rainbow and Focal. Not to mention about DD's, thats the way i should go.
    post edited by Mkkari - 2016/10/16 00:13:40

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    RainStryke
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    Re: Any car stereo guys in here? 5.25 speaker question 2016/10/15 23:04:23 (permalink)
    I just recently parted with my set-up to get my new car. NVX is a newer brand and they put out a really nice product for the money. I ran NVX speakers in my last car and will for my next set-up as well... They get super loud, especially when on an amplifier. I would recommend a pair of these:
    http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_72199_NVX-VSP525.html
     
     Also, your Kenwood says 50w per channel, but it's more like 18-22w RMS per channel.

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    kaninja
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    Re: Any car stereo guys in here? 5.25 speaker question 2016/10/16 00:42:35 (permalink)
    I second the NVX recommendation. I had never heard of them before but they came highly recommended from a few friends. Relaced the old worn out stockers in my '96 Landcruiser. They just sound great....as subjective as that is.

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    stalinx20
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    Re: Any car stereo guys in here? 5.25 speaker question 2016/10/16 02:10:38 (permalink)
    Right here.

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    stalinx20
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    Re: Any car stereo guys in here? 5.25 speaker question 2016/10/16 02:13:00 (permalink)
    TLDR: If you're not wanting to spend a lot, then narrow it down to 3 choices: Kenwood, Pioneer, and kicker.
     
    JVC and Rockford Fosgate are "still within" the "pro" grade level (for car audio). JVC, not so much, but I would put them above Kenwood and definitely Pioneer...  I would put Infinity above JVC and Rockford Fosgate. Although, that is not one of your choices. I do have a JVC stereo which is plugged into 2 amps. Since you blown a speaker, have you considered getting a pair which is more powerful? You already have an amp. So, getting something a little more powerful should do the trick. your blown speaker(s) did meet the RMS rating of your amp, right? Car audio is not so much different from home theater. But, if you want my true, and honest opinion, go with Infinity for car audio, even though you don't want to spend the money; Infinity still has reasonable choices at reasonable prices.
     
    post edited by stalinx20 - 2016/10/16 02:29:54

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    agent8
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    Re: Any car stereo guys in here? 5.25 speaker question 2016/10/16 08:35:19 (permalink)
    I was almost sold on the NVX but comparing specs side to side with the Kickers and now I'm unsure. I know companies will inflate their specs but there were some fairly big differences.
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    stalinx20
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    Re: Any car stereo guys in here? 5.25 speaker question 2016/10/16 12:05:11 (permalink)
    agent8
    I was almost sold on the NVX but comparing specs side to side with the Kickers and now I'm unsure. I know companies will inflate their specs but there were some fairly big differences.


    Keep your eyes on the Total Harmonic distortion for good quality, yet affordable. But, you probably already know that. Just throwing it out there.

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    ARIOS-X1
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    Re: Any car stereo guys in here? 5.25 speaker question 2016/10/16 15:24:37 (permalink)
    I own a pair of the Kicker CS 5.25 and they are alright. They do distort when too much bass is applied so if you have your bass in your deck up high you might hear some distortion. I would guess they are on the better side of quality, you probably wouldn't notice a difference between the Kick's and the Kenwood's because they're in your Jeep and engine/road noise, ect, equals out the quality difference. Oh and at 4Ohm there is quite a lot of hiss that comes out the built in tweeters. I had to add an inline a 4ohm resistor to bring it up to 8 so the hiss wasn't as loud. 
    post edited by ARIOS-X1 - 2016/10/16 15:28:46
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    The Hoorider
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    Re: Any car stereo guys in here? 5.25 speaker question 2016/10/16 16:13:14 (permalink)
    If you run an equalizer you can avoid distortion issues,also having a deck with a good eq built in. I'd go with the fosgates.Whats the amp you are running?
    post edited by The Hoorider - 2016/10/16 16:18:27



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    agent8
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    Re: Any car stereo guys in here? 5.25 speaker question 2016/10/16 17:01:29 (permalink)
    I am running the 4 main speakers directly from the Kenwood which is this one http://www.crutchfield.com/S-fQ340VTKvui/p_613KDC255U/Kenwood-KDC-255U.html
    I've had it in my work truck but they just gave me a brand new truck so I pulled it out.
    The amp is an old junk 300 Watt Kenwood that is driving a 10" Sony Xplode sub. The sub has been retro fit into the rear passenger compartment box that many Cherokee owners do. There is hardly any volume back there so it doesn't sound the best but since this is a 25 year old romper, I don't need much. I toyed with the idea of building a huge sub in the back but since I don't have a good roof rack and the tires are larger than stock, the only place for the spare to go is in the back right now. I drive it maybe twice a month so I just want an alright system, nothing too crazy.
    What sucks is the wiring was redone so I had to take a multi meter on the wires and check each wire for polarity since the guy before me just put in whatever color he wanted.
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    The Hoorider
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    Re: Any car stereo guys in here? 5.25 speaker question 2016/10/16 18:39:37 (permalink)
    You should  be alright with any of those that you pick.



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    agent8
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    Re: Any car stereo guys in here? 5.25 speaker question 2016/10/16 22:19:47 (permalink)
    After A LOT of extensive research, I have narrowed it down to the Rockford Fosgates and the Kickers.
    http://www.crutchfield.co...ate-Prime-R1525X2.html
    I did check out some infinity's and a few other brands but I kept going back to these two.
     
    The Kickers seem to have better specs but for about $15 bucks more, I can get 4 of the Rockford Fosgates to match them all up and have 2 in the hatch as well. The hatch ones now are fine but it would be cool if they were timbre matched. Of course, I probably won't notice those speakers way in the back that much anyway. Not sure what to do. Not like it's that much money but I like to make the right decision the first time...
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    The Hoorider
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    Re: Any car stereo guys in here? 5.25 speaker question 2016/10/16 23:15:44 (permalink)
    Well, the kickers have a higher wattage rating, so it might actually be better to go with fosgates.You will be closer to the rms of them without an amp.



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    RainStryke
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    Re: Any car stereo guys in here? 5.25 speaker question 2016/10/17 11:12:46 (permalink)
    agent8
    After A LOT of extensive research, I have narrowed it down to the Rockford Fosgates and the Kickers.
    http://www.crutchfield.co...ate-Prime-R1525X2.html
    I did check out some infinity's and a few other brands but I kept going back to these two.
     
    The Kickers seem to have better specs but for about $15 bucks more, I can get 4 of the Rockford Fosgates to match them all up and have 2 in the hatch as well. The hatch ones now are fine but it would be cool if they were timbre matched. Of course, I probably won't notice those speakers way in the back that much anyway. Not sure what to do. Not like it's that much money but I like to make the right decision the first time...




    The NVX speakers are better than anything in it's price range. Before my NVX speakers, I had Rockford Prime series stuff all around, it's garbage compared to stuff in it's price range. Kicker's prices are a little inflated as well, their clarity isn't as nice and I would suggest going Pioneer over Kicker.
     
    NVX is truly the company to go with. Their X series components are basically re-branded ARC audio black series components for a third of the price, that stuff is really high end.

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    agent8
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    Re: Any car stereo guys in here? 5.25 speaker question 2016/10/17 12:45:21 (permalink)
    Ok, RainStryke, if it was almost any other forum member, I would blow your recommendation off. You have "street cred" in here and I know you are pretty knowledgeable so why not. I can't find too much info on these speakers because they are new but the people that do have them, love them so when I get home, I will pull the trigger.
     
    But, I am warning you, If I spend $50 on these speakers and If they suck, I am going to log on to Evga, find this thread and send you a big thumbs down GIF, and maybe I will throw in an angry emoticon while I'm at it.
    Thanks
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    RainStryke
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    Re: Any car stereo guys in here? 5.25 speaker question 2016/10/17 13:12:54 (permalink)
    agent8
    Ok, RainStryke, if it was almost any other forum member, I would blow your recommendation off. You have "street cred" in here and I know you are pretty knowledgeable so why not. I can't find too much info on these speakers because they are new but the people that do have them, love them so when I get home, I will pull the trigger.
     
    But, I am warning you, If I spend $50 on these speakers and If they suck, I am going to log on to Evga, find this thread and send you a big thumbs down GIF, and maybe I will throw in an angry emoticon while I'm at it.
    Thanks




    lol I loved mine...
     
    Looks like they just went on sale too... for 15% off.

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    WackyWRZ
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    Re: Any car stereo guys in here? 5.25 speaker question 2016/10/17 14:50:16 (permalink)
    I've used both RF "Prime" speakers and the Kicker "DS" series on some other people's installs recently and was not at all impressed at all with either of them.  To me it seems like both of those brands have come out with some really low level stuff with high markup to peddle off at the big box stores whereas the "power" and "KS" lines are much better but cost much more and have even more markup.  I would go as far as to compare them with the $15 flea market special junk...  I recently installed some Infinity Reference speakers in the wife's car last month and have been very happy with those - except the highs on Infinity always seem on the harsh side.
     
    I've read great things about the NVX speakers - and have been planning on getting a set of 5.25 components or 6x8s for my old beater truck - just haven't gotten around to it.  I've been stuck between Polk and NVX - as I really like my Polk home audio stuff.  I'd be very interested to see how you like them before I grab a set. 
    post edited by WackyWRZ - 2016/10/17 14:54:57

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    nateman_doo
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    Re: Any car stereo guys in here? 5.25 speaker question 2016/10/17 15:21:53 (permalink)
    I have been out of the game for some years, but I can tell you find the amp with the largest RMS power, lowest THD, and don't worry about the wattage of the speaker.  I have pushed 4K through a single tweeter for a short while.  My point is a speaker will handle tremendous power, as long as its clean power.  I saw someone mentioned clipping.  That is basically when your speaker output (as seen on an Oscilloscope) looks like square waves, instead of clean sine waves.
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    agent8
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    Re: Any car stereo guys in here? 5.25 speaker question 2016/10/17 15:37:07 (permalink)
    Well, California tax sucked but with the promo code, they were cheaper than the other options I was looking at. I forgot to add the free sound deadening kit and when I called, they gladly added it and said my order would be shipped first thing tomorrow. That sonicelectronix.com has some pretty good prices on other stuff too. The plan for now is to see how the Nvx speakers sound with just the Kenwood unit and if I like them but need more power, I may order 2 more speakers and a 4 channel amp. I really just needed to fix 1 blown speaker but since they are sold in pairs, whatever. Now that I got bit by the "upgrade bug," I talking about 2 more speakers, an amp and maybe even a better compact sub. I swear, this is just as bad as computers, music gear and all my other hobbies!

     
    Thanks for all the help guys and I will let you know what I think when I get them installed!
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    stalinx20
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    Re: Any car stereo guys in here? 5.25 speaker question 2016/10/17 17:04:44 (permalink)
    nateman_doo
    I have been out of the game for some years, but I can tell you find the amp with the largest RMS power, lowest THD, and don't worry about the wattage of the speaker.  I have pushed 4K through a single tweeter for a short while.  My point is a speaker will handle tremendous power, as long as its clean power.  I saw someone mentioned clipping.  That is basically when your speaker output (as seen on an Oscilloscope) looks like square waves, instead of clean sine waves.


    Not always the case with a subwoofer (that I know of). I did exactly what you mention above, where I had a 600RMS amp powering a 350RMS subwoofer - at 2ohms. The subwoofer kept clipping, and I had to set it to 4ohms to get the RMS closer to the subwoofer's output. The issue then went away. It could be the subwoofer, yes, but the issue also went away when I took 2 more subwoofers, and drove them with the other subwoofer to get the RMS rating closer to what the amp was pumping out, 600RMS. Not really sure at this point, but my issue with driving the 350RMS sub at 2ohms went away once I hit the switch to drive the sub at 4ohms, which then brought the amp to 400 watts.
    post edited by stalinx20 - 2016/10/17 17:06:13

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    SethH
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    Re: Any car stereo guys in here? 5.25 speaker question 2016/10/19 03:40:22 (permalink)
    stalinx20
    nateman_doo
    I have been out of the game for some years, but I can tell you find the amp with the largest RMS power, lowest THD, and don't worry about the wattage of the speaker.  I have pushed 4K through a single tweeter for a short while.  My point is a speaker will handle tremendous power, as long as its clean power.  I saw someone mentioned clipping.  That is basically when your speaker output (as seen on an Oscilloscope) looks like square waves, instead of clean sine waves.


    Not always the case with a subwoofer (that I know of). I did exactly what you mention above, where I had a 600RMS amp powering a 350RMS subwoofer - at 2ohms. The subwoofer kept clipping, and I had to set it to 4ohms to get the RMS closer to the subwoofer's output. The issue then went away. It could be the subwoofer, yes, but the issue also went away when I took 2 more subwoofers, and drove them with the other subwoofer to get the RMS rating closer to what the amp was pumping out, 600RMS. Not really sure at this point, but my issue with driving the 350RMS sub at 2ohms went away once I hit the switch to drive the sub at 4ohms, which then brought the amp to 400 watts.




    The reason for this is that speakers are rated for certain amounts of power based on the spiders/suspension built into it. Clipping doesn't only have to do with "dirty power" (AKA trying to push your amp more than it's rated for), it's also caused when a speaker bottoms out. If you take a sub rated for 350W RMS and pump 600W into it, it might perform fine at a higher frequency (when cone movement is less), but when you start going lower (below 40Hz), that's when the sub has to move further to output the specific frequency. The maximum deviation from its resting position is called Xmax. Try to go past this, you'll get clipping due to the cone literally smacking against the bottom of its suspension OR you get a blowout from the cone trying to push OUTWARD and rip itself off of the frame.
     
    If you want a visual representation, check this video out at 2:00 and onward (for difference in cone movement for frequencies): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pTlFzMX879c
     
    Another example of proof for this is bass competitions. Lower frequency = more cone movement = more air being pushed. When you see "hairtrick" videos, they're not done using a high frequency. Say at 50Hz the cone moves 10mm in either direction. Let's say 25Hz moves 20mm in either direction. That's going to push at LEAST double the amount of air, resulting in a flexing windshield, hairtricks, etc.
     
     
    IF you are going to use an amplifier rated for more Watts RMS than your speakers, use a DMM and match the gain with the output of your speakers. You can make a 600W amp push only 300W.
     
    Adjusting the gain adjusts the Voltage delivered to the speakers/subs. To find the amount of volts needed, you'd do: sqrt(Wattage of speakers * Load Resistance) = Voltage.
     
    If you have a sub rated for 300W at 4 Ohms, you would to sqrt(300 * 4) = Voltage = 34.64V. If you push more than that, you're going to run into issues. 
     
    Your headunit may be rated for 50W but is that RMS or peak, and at what impedance? Most times they advertise the peak values and you'll have problems. If it's rated for 50W at 2Ohms and you use 4Ohm speakers, you're only going to see an end result of 25W to each.
    post edited by SethH - 2016/10/19 04:02:20

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    fusionssl
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    Re: Any car stereo guys in here? 5.25 speaker question 2016/10/19 04:06:54 (permalink)
    its always best practice to match your amp and speaker rms power ratings as closely as possible, you will not achieve the speakers full range if you over or under power it.
    you can also cause damage to the speaker running them below and over there rms rating 
     
    I have just completed a full install in my Vw Multivan of focal speakers and sub powered by 1 alpine pdr75 75w rms as the speakers are 75w rms its extremely load if wanted but always powerful

     
     
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    #23
    SethH
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    Re: Any car stereo guys in here? 5.25 speaker question 2016/10/19 04:57:40 (permalink)
    fusionssl
    its always best practice to match your amp and speaker rms power ratings as closely as possible, you will not achieve the speakers full range if you over or under power it.


     
    fusionssl
    you can also cause damage to the speaker running them below and over there rms rating 

    Over RMS rating, yes. Under, no. In that case, any time you lower the volume you'd risk damaging it. The RMS rating is a "max" kind of like an RPM. Your car has a max RPM of say 9000. You can do anything under it just fine (the lower the RPM though, obviously the less performance - in the audio case it'd be decibels/loudness) but if you go over,
     

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    #24
    Mkkari
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    Re: Any car stereo guys in here? 5.25 speaker question 2016/10/19 06:57:25 (permalink)
    SethH
    fusionssl
    its always best practice to match your amp and speaker rms power ratings as closely as possible, you will not achieve the speakers full range if you over or under power it.


     
    fusionssl
    you can also cause damage to the speaker running them below and over there rms rating 

    Over RMS rating, yes. Under, no. In that case, any time you lower the volume you'd risk damaging it. The RMS rating is a "max" kind of like an RPM. Your car has a max RPM of say 9000. You can do anything under it just fine (the lower the RPM though, obviously the less performance - in the audio case it'd be decibels/loudness) but if you go over,
     


    Nope. RMS is just pointer, it depends on many things like mostly enclosure.

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    #25
    SethH
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    Re: Any car stereo guys in here? 5.25 speaker question 2016/10/19 08:03:14 (permalink)
    Mkkari
    Nope. RMS is just pointer, it depends on many things like mostly enclosure.


    If you run a speaker/sub out of its rated RMS range, you void warranty. If you run an amp below its rated Impedance, you void warranty.

    Of course you can go higher than what it's rated for. If you have a huge sealed box, you can't do nearly as much power as one that's a lot smaller, etc.

    If you have a ported box, then it really comes down to box tuning along with enclosure size.

    Then you can get into 4th order, 6th order, bandpass, etc. and things get wonky. If you're not an expert or don't have a lot of experience, stick to rated RMS. And if you're doing any 3 listed above, at that point you probably have AGM batteries, a bigger alternator, big 3 upgrade, etc. anyways and know what you're doing.

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    #26
    Mkkari
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    Re: Any car stereo guys in here? 5.25 speaker question 2016/10/19 09:32:10 (permalink)
    SethHIf you run a speaker/sub out of its rated RMS range, you void warranty. If you run an amp below its rated Impedance, you void warranty.

    Of course you can go higher than what it's rated for. If you have a huge sealed box, you can't do nearly as much power as one that's a lot smaller, etc.

    If you have a ported box, then it really comes down to box tuning along with enclosure size.

    Then you can get into 4th order, 6th order, bandpass, etc. and things get wonky. If you're not an expert or don't have a lot of experience, stick to rated RMS. And if you're doing any 3 listed above, at that point you probably have AGM batteries, a bigger alternator, big 3 upgrade, etc. anyways and know what you're doing.

    Now we're talking about. We got little bit different warranties while misusage still voids warranty. That goes only to cases that there was no run-in done or adjustments were really bad. Damage contains to spiders, and coils. Spiders ripped and coil is starting to burst.
     
    We got little bit carried away, sorry for this. Remember to have nice clean power on everything and voltages up 

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    #27
    nateman_doo
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    Re: Any car stereo guys in here? 5.25 speaker question 2016/10/19 17:35:46 (permalink)
    how would a manufacturer know if you over, or underpowered their speaker?  you break it its still broke.  If its under the warranty, they will likely still honor it.  - unless you poke a hole in the surround with your cordless drill... come on, we all have done it ;) 
    #28
    stalinx20
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    Re: Any car stereo guys in here? 5.25 speaker question 2016/10/19 19:05:49 (permalink)
    fusionssl
    its always best practice to match your amp and speaker rms power ratings as closely as possible, you will not achieve the speakers full range if you over or under power it.
    you can also cause damage to the speaker running them below and over there rms rating 
     
    I have just completed a full install in my Vw Multivan of focal speakers and sub powered by 1 alpine pdr75 75w rms as the speakers are 75w rms its extremely load if wanted but always powerful


    This is exactly what my issue was, and i'm fully well aware of the circumstances that can happen if one was to power a sub well over the subwoofers nominal power; by me powering a subwoofer well over the sub's nominal power, it would clip, as Seth included, it was because i was pushing the sub below 50hz, which i was, with a 600rms amp when the sub is 350rms rating; The subwoofer is not cheap in any way. However, as soon as i switched over to 4ohms, issues solved, bringing the amp to 400rms, even when i pushed the sub and amplifier at below 50hz. The subwoofer i have has a switch to go from either 2 or 4 ohms. 
    post edited by stalinx20 - 2016/10/19 19:10:51

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    #29
    fusionssl
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    Re: Any car stereo guys in here? 5.25 speaker question 2016/10/20 02:34:57 (permalink)
    yes you can damage a speaker by running it below it nominal power rating

     
     
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    #30
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