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Another "Decided to put things underwater" thread

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TECH_DaveB
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Re: Another "Decided to put things underwater" thread 2015/12/30 10:52:33 (permalink)
Hello all, I'm back, was afk for the holiday, then we were down fro the company move, then my desk didn't network/internet until about an hour ago.  So I am catching up on my threads.
 
First off, Zuhl...
Zuhl3156
Dukman
Since Im far from knowledgeable about this stuff myself, we can hope that Dave, Hallowen or one of the others will stop by and explan the differences between the two better.  But there's nothing wrong with a PWM pump.  To me it comes down to "automatic" vs. "manual". 
 
Like PWM fans the pump allows the motherboard or a controller like the Aquaero to control the speed of the pump.   Non PWM pumps are basically "set it and forget it" with 5 speed settings.
 
The main reason I want a non PWM pump is the "set and forget" ability. 


Hallowen seems like the man with a plan but Dave seems to get OCD with his watercooling performance and is no slouch either. I lowered my pump speed to 80% trying to eliminate the bubbles forming in my res from being churned up by the return flow. No air is entering my loop but I'm thinking about moving it back to 100% just to get better flow through the loop.




First off, that is CDO, which is OCD, alphabetized correctly, next  HEY, I resemble that remark lol.  My GF calls me a hardware snob, cooling snob and a storage snob.... so maybe there is something to that haha.  Does the OCD statement come from my component by component  breakdown of my loops I gave a while back either in this thread or one of the others we spoke in recently?  Also, Hallowen's M.O. will get you better results, AC components, 2 pond pumps and an igloo full of antifreeze  :)
 
As for PWM, imho, it is something that is flat out unnecessary.  I have used D5's for YEARS, mainly used the B model which is non adjustable, I have had the adjustables, but always found cooling was best on max.  PWM is so basically you can use the motherboards fan controller to dial back the the pump or ramp it up based on temps, or to plug it into a PWM controller and control it manually.
For mobo control, it is basically so that you can set a goal temp and keep it as quiet as possible.  Personally, I want it colder not quieter  :)
PWM controller, like a fan controller style I suppose is fine, if you want that extra layer of control, it can also help to bleed all of the air out of the loop a little faster if you have a bay res.  Personally, I just tilted my case forward and kept trickling in more water, then it stopped sucking in small bits of air.
 
In short PWM isn't bad, but to the experienced watercooler, it's like asking Mario Andretti if he NEEDS a backup camera or an autonomous mode in his new car.  To me, it is a needless expense that will not get my hardware any colder.  If it does not get it any colder, or make installation/maintenance/replacement/upgrade any easier than I would prefer not to put money into it.
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Zuhl3156
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Re: Another "Decided to put things underwater" thread 2015/12/30 10:58:24 (permalink)
EVGATech_DaveB
Hello all, I'm back, was afk for the holiday, then we were down fro the company move, then my desk didn't network/internet until about an hour ago.  So I am catching up on my threads.
 
 
 
Does the OCD statement come from my component by component  breakdown of my loops I gave a while back either in this thread or one of the others we spoke in recently? 
 
.



Yep, that's the thread I am talking about. Constantly swapping out components, changing flow direction and pump speeds, radiators, fans, airflow direction etc while monitoring every single digit change in temperature. Now that's what I call dedication, or OCD. LOL
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TECH_DaveB
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Re: Another "Decided to put things underwater" thread 2015/12/30 11:19:07 (permalink)
I prefer dedication, but OCD is likely a b it more accurate  :)
Funny all that work in making something that performs PERFECT, and I still don't have one that is considered presentable by most people, I guess it is all priorities.
 
I hope all here had a very Merry Christmas, other holiday you chose to celebrate, and for those who do not celebrate anything I hope your nonspecial December 25th was great as well.
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Re: Another "Decided to put things underwater" thread 2015/12/30 13:23:43 (permalink)
Every December 25 is special when you watch the yearly Christmas episode from Dr Who on BBC America!
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Re: Another "Decided to put things underwater" thread 2015/12/30 20:13:23 (permalink)
I had a good Christmas.  My other present to myself was almost all of the parts needed to complete my build.  Plus 32GB of DDR3 2400 memory and an Orico 5 bay external enclosure.
 
Still need fittings.  But I have a pretty good idea of what I'll need.  90% sure I'll go with BitsPower fittings.   At the very least the drain will be BitsPower.

Heatware



 
 
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TECH_DaveB
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Re: Another "Decided to put things underwater" thread 2015/12/31 09:19:38 (permalink)
Glad to hear you had a good holiday.
 
I strongly recommend BitsPower, I have not had a issue with one of their fittings since 2009 and that was only 1 time.  I use them almost exclusively.  I only go away form them for Quick Disconnects as the Koolance QD4's are just better, they are less restrictive, or when they are all out of stock again, which does happen.  For the drain, I LOVE their valves.  They have a standard ball valve with a twist on the top, G1/4 on both sides, I have a T and one of those at the bottom with a plug.  I keep an extra piece of hose with a barb on it so I remove the plug form the end, thread in the tube, then open the valve to drain, it is that simple, when it is done I close the valve remove the tube and plug it.  Yes the plug is redundant, but as anyone who has read some of my posts about my loops you know I tend to go a little overkill.
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Re: Another "Decided to put things underwater" thread 2016/01/16 14:58:50 (permalink)
Almost ready to kick this thing off
 
Got the email that my CaseLabs SM8 has been shipped, so it will be here next week.  The only things left is the fittings and the water.   Plus Im not trying to decide if I want to add a little dye to my water.   The only place you'll be able to see anything is the reservoir, but I got to thinking that a little color there wouldn't hurt.    Will have to ponder over that a little more to decide if it would be worth it or not.
 
Other thing I need to do is sit down and diagram out how I want to route the loop so that I can get an idea about what fittings I'll be needing.  Im thinking GPU>CPU>Radiators to keep things tidy.  Everything I've read and watched seemed to indicate that it didn't really make a difference on temps regardless of how you route the loop. 

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Re: Another "Decided to put things underwater" thread 2016/01/16 15:20:06 (permalink)
Sound like you can start building real soon.  Look forward to seeing your results.

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Zuhl3156
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Re: Another "Decided to put things underwater" thread 2016/01/16 17:31:46 (permalink)
There are a lot of opinions about how you should run your loop. Many recommend having the flow come from the pump and then to a radiator to cool it before sending the coolant to your video boards or CPU because they claim that the pump also transfers heat to the coolant. I decided I didn't want scalding hot water going to my res/pump combo unit so I send coolant directly from the pump to my video boards before traveling through the Monsta 360. After that the CPU is next in line before going through a 240 mm radiator to get cooled some more before heading back to the reservoir. I tried it both ways and this way gives me a 3 to 4 degree drop in temps. I use Swiftech's coolant concentrate which gives the coolant visible through my dual bay reservoir window a green tint. Using colored coolant generally stains your loop and gunks things up from what I have been told and is why I choose to stay away from it myself. My hoses are all black and the reservoir window is the only place I can see it anyway.
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Dukman
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Re: Another "Decided to put things underwater" thread 2016/01/16 17:58:21 (permalink)
Well that gives me an alternative I didn't stop to think about.   
 
I think I can pull off a similar set up and keep things tidy.   My goal is to use as little tubing as possible.    But I think I could pull off a loop similar to yours.  Res/Pump>GPU(s)>Rad>CPU>Rad>Res/Pump.

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Zuhl3156
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Re: Another "Decided to put things underwater" thread 2016/01/16 18:17:47 (permalink)
That Monsta 360 gives me a lot of cooling. I used to have my CPU on a Swiftech H220 and a separate loop for my video boards using just the 240 mm radiator and the air coming out of that was hot enough to cause blisters on your hand if you held it under there long enough. Adding the Monsta 360 dropped my temps 10 to 12 degrees minimum and now the air is only warm. Even the window on my reservoir is cool to the touch where it used to be like touching the glass door on my toaster. I went with the parallel terminal block because I was in a hurry and nobody had a serial terminal block in stock. I got better results when I had my video boards in a serial config where both boards had equal temps. Now that I have the parallel terminal on there my bottom video board runs hotter than the top one. I'll have to try and find a serial terminal block and change it out. Maybe I'll splurge and spend the extra money for a plexiglas terminal so I can see my coolant flowing around.
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Re: Another "Decided to put things underwater" thread 2016/01/17 16:55:58 (permalink)
EVGATech_DaveB
I think we all made that mistake the first time, no drain.  My first was a disaster haha.  my second which pretty much replaced the first one right away did not have one, but the rad was a press fit in the bottom of my case so I could just lift it out, remove a hose and drain.
From there as I expanded I started looking at things to do to handle the inevitable instance of hardware eventually failing or an upgrade.  Got less away from how fancy things looked, well, comparatively at least, it *was* flashy for me but not compared to many here; and got more and more into function above all else and making everything easier, which in turn makes the design and build harder, BUT the maintenance/replacement/upgrade/etc MUCH easier.
 
Will have to check this thread from home, your image is blocked here.


100% agree!
When I built my first WC build, in an SRX I fell on a dud board with faulty DIMM slots, removing the motherboard from my CaseLabs was a pain given that I had no quick release fittings and therefore had to drain the entire system, 1200mm2 of RAD.... 2 cpus and 4 gpus later I learnt my lesson and invested in some quick release fittings in order to be able to eject the entire motherboard tray from the system if need be without needing to empty the entire loop.
 
It's at that point that maintenance became more important than design in my eyes
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Re: Another "Decided to put things underwater" thread 2016/01/17 18:05:25 (permalink)
I've been happy with my custom loop using 2 - 120 X 45 X 360 - Alphacool XT45 Rad
 
D5 Pump to bottom 360 Rad to Dual EVGA Titan X GPUs (parallel)
 
Up to CPU, then Up to top 360 Rad, Down to Reservoir and back to pump
 
The Alphacool Rads have 6 - G1/4 threads, this allowed me to incorporate my drain very easily.

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Re: Another "Decided to put things underwater" thread 2016/01/18 07:10:31 (permalink)
I've got two 6 port AlphaCool 360 rads, but both will sit in the top of the case, so that's why I'm trying to figure out the best way to run the loop and yet minimize tubing and clutter.   Still need to sit down and diagram this stuff out, but Fallout keeps sidetracking me.  
And I just realized that I'll need to figure out another way to install the drain.   
 
I have the EK-XRes D5 series and was going to install the drain there.  But that might not work as I've only got the inlet and the outlet.   Or maybe install a Y or a T on the outlet and then a drain.  Or perhaps a quick disconnect.   Then when I need to drain, I can simply have another connect on my drain tube, plug it in and drain the system.   
 
I need to head over to Rigz and scroll through those systems to see how others have set theirs up.

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#74
Zuhl3156
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Re: Another "Decided to put things underwater" thread 2016/01/18 07:16:21 (permalink)
I have a drain plug in the bottom of the Monsta 360 radiator that sits at the lowest point in my loop so draining the rad is no problem. I decided to use the two top ports for flow in and out of my EK terminal block so I can take the plug out of the lower side of that and drain the res and video board blocks too.
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TECH_DaveB
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Re: Another "Decided to put things underwater" thread 2016/01/18 12:13:02 (permalink)
Zuhl3156
I have a drain plug in the bottom of the Monsta 360 radiator that sits at the lowest point in my loop so draining the rad is no problem. I decided to use the two top ports for flow in and out of my EK terminal block so I can take the plug out of the lower side of that and drain the res and video board blocks too.




Yeah those plugs at the bottom of the Monsta are REALLY handy.
I gotta say I an really glad to hear someone giving those rads the credit they are due.  I constantly hear people bash on them and reference some test with almost no pressure fans like R4's and say they don't do well.  Those rads are beastly if you have enough fan to really using that thick rad.
 
My builds are all about easy of access if something breaks, then best possible temps, THEN looking good.  :)
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Re: Another "Decided to put things underwater" thread 2016/01/18 15:30:43 (permalink)
I tried for both looks and ease of access so I didn't look like an idiot when I was finished. The jury is still out on whether I succeeded or not. I tried to avoid all 90° bends and keep all hoses as short and direct as possible. That port on the lower right side of the EK terminal as a drain was an added bonus for using the top outlet. EK recessed the threads and required an adapter sleeve to use that port but I was in a hurry and rather than wait for an adapter sleeve I clamped my G-1/4 barbed fitting in a vise and filed the points off of the edges. I could still grip it with pliers to tighten it and it isn't leaking so I guess I did a good enough job of improvising. I also added some hard foam blocks between some of the hoses to keep them from making contact with each other. I noticed when I had my H220 when its hoses contacted the video board loop's hoses the temps rose significantly on my CPU so they can pass heat to each other.
post edited by Zuhl3156 - 2016/01/19 03:25:37
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Dukman
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Re: Another "Decided to put things underwater" thread 2016/01/18 19:47:02 (permalink)
The most critical part of the build has finally arrived. 
 

 
That's my old 800D hiding behind it. 

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Re: Another "Decided to put things underwater" thread 2016/01/18 19:57:00 (permalink)
Nice case,
 
Hope you get some sleep & not up all night building that beast.
 
Look forward to you updates
 
 

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Re: Another "Decided to put things underwater" thread 2016/01/19 03:32:05 (permalink)
The case looks good. Just take your time, think everything out and do it perfect every step of the way. If you run into a stumbling block just take a few parts out and do it again only better so you never have to look back as say, "I should have done this or that differently". During the assembly don't ever tell yourself that something is good enough. Do it right from start to finish and make us all proud. We'll be looking forward to the new build on your next Mods-Rigs page and standing in line to give you our +1 votes. 
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Re: Another "Decided to put things underwater" thread 2016/01/19 06:49:28 (permalink)
Thanks guys.   
 
This build is actually going to take awhile.  Like several months.   First because I need to completely disassemble and reassemble my current box AmmoCan (aka BMovie) with older parts so that I have a working PC.  That reassembled PC will then get turned into a Steambox and get moved downstairs to the TV when the Beast project is complete.    But before that can happen several things need to get done.   I need to buy a video card(s) for AmmoCan as the ones in it will be going into the WC project.   And I need to sleeve two power supplies.  Well actually, I need to sleeve three.  But the third one can wait.   It will be a slow process mainly because I really don't enjoy sleeving things, but also because I've found that if I hurry, I tend to screw up.   Plus I still need to order more parts.  I still need fittings, at least two fan distribution blocks and a fan controller and more sleeve.  Plus about a half a dozen other things that keep slipping my mind... Like the upper reservoir clamp I keep forgetting about.
 
So I'll be kicking over to the Mods Rigs thread shortly to document the whole over complicated process.  Hopefully I won't disappoint with my lack of mad modding skills.  But I do my best.  
post edited by Dukman - 2016/01/19 06:53:42

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#81
TECH_DaveB
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Re: Another "Decided to put things underwater" thread 2016/01/19 11:35:02 (permalink)
Sweet box, and I think Zuhl is making solid recommendations.  Admittedly, I'm the king of "meh, good enough" largely because 1) I am not that worried about making things pretty, 2) and I rarely have something else to use in the interim, as I am upgrading or moving cases so the whole time it is apart is down time.  Hence mine usually look unfinished/abandoned.  Since you can take the time, heck, make a build log and photo all the steps, I would sub and watch, definitely.
Looking forward to seeing this complete.
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Re: Another "Decided to put things underwater" thread 2016/02/27 08:50:04 (permalink)
The more things change, the more they don't really stay the same.  
 
Looks like I'm going to need some new GPU water blocks.  

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#83
Zuhl3156
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Re: Another "Decided to put things underwater" thread 2016/02/27 09:03:50 (permalink)
You might as well get the best: https://www.ekwb.com/configurator/
 
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Re: Another "Decided to put things underwater" thread 2016/02/27 09:38:10 (permalink)
Zuhl3156
You might as well get the best: https://www.ekwb.com/configurator/
 


10% discount till end of the month - with the "secret code"

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Dukman
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Re: Another "Decided to put things underwater" thread 2016/02/27 09:58:41 (permalink)
Not a lot of choices for water blocks.  The only block I could find for the Classy was from EK.  
 
And what secret code?   Besides, overall it would probably still be cheaper to get them from PPCs when you factor in shipping.
 
Originally, I was going to get a pair of FTW's, but since there were no water blocks out there, that killed that choice.   The Classified was originally a bit more than I wanted to pay, but they dropped in price Friday.  So I could get an SC card, or for 10.00 more I could get a Classy.  Not a tough choice really.
 
Does anyone know if I can keep and use the stock backplate with the EK waterblock?  Or do I have to use the EK plate?   I know Scarlet has a pair of Classy's, he might know.

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#86
Zuhl3156
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Re: Another "Decided to put things underwater" thread 2016/02/27 10:06:29 (permalink)
IDK about the stock backplate but the EK backplate is machined and has thermal pads to help cool the VRAM and VRM. Mine does and it does draw a lot of heat away from the back of the video board.
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Dukman
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Re: Another "Decided to put things underwater" thread 2016/02/27 10:15:37 (permalink)
Plus it looks sexier than the stock one.   But I was looking for a way to save 100.00.  

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Zuhl3156
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Re: Another "Decided to put things underwater" thread 2016/02/27 10:31:02 (permalink)
Dukman
Plus it looks sexier than the stock one.   But I was looking for a way to save 100.00.  


Are those backplates that expensive? I think mine were only around $25 or maybe $35 at the most.
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Dukman
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Re: Another "Decided to put things underwater" thread 2016/02/27 10:48:14 (permalink)
They're 30.00 each.  I'll need 3 back plates.
 
By the time you add in shipping, we're looking at 100+ just for the backplates.

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