I too, (at one time) was concerned that the Crunching component of our Team might have a reduction effect upon our Folding Team PPD.  However, we have still reached daily highs in Jan/Feb that rivaled our November-December highs. It helps to look at actual numbers when talking about what happened or is happening vs estimating these things. 
 
Daily average from Nov 1 thru Dec 31, 2011
EVGA = 19.9M
HardOCP = 18.3M
 
Daily average from Jan 1, 2012 thru today
EVGA = 20.1M
HardOCP = 21.9M
 
So, IMO our Folding Team is actually in good health and still Folding like a juggernaut.  We are being overtaken because we are being out-folded by another very organized and powerful team (HardOCP).  I actually find that a bit exciting because we are finally being given a "run for our money".  The competition has now become real vs running away with the top spot as we have done in the past.
 
I think we can safely say that our Team is pretty mighty for being able to start a very competitive Crunching Team while also maintaining very respectable Folding results.  What we have done in actuality is step into the same DC pool as [H] (and other DC Teams) with our added Crunching ability.  I absolutely do not see bad things in any of this and am a bit jazzed about how strong our entire DC Team has become.  We may not ultimately hold onto the #1 spot, but we are a "force to be reckoned with" and that makes me very proud of the EVGA DC Team. 

I can see that the problem with EVGA's "Folding" arm is still the animosity that they still harbor toward previous folders that chose to drop PG and FAH for other contribution opportunities.
I have not posted here much but have been following. I can tell you that WE (EVGA Folders) are going to be our own stumbling block in growing our team/Teams. We are vicious canibals, IMO. Mods GUT any that wish to have a differing of perspective and most of the rest tend to do the same. Makes us look petty and "unfun", again IMO.
 
Most of the folders were railroaded away from Folding for EVGA every bit as much by this sub-forum as their distaste for what FAH was doing for them as Donors, again IMO.
 
I don't wish to do FLU research so my CPU's are elsewhere.
And what happenned to Folding isn't about the POINTS?
 
Sean

shdbcamping

I can see that the problem with EVGA's "Folding" arm is still the animosity that they still harbor toward previous folders that chose to drop PG and FAH for other contribution opportunities.
I have not posted here much but have been following. I can tell you that WE (EVGA Folders) are going to be our own stumbling block in growing our team/Teams. We are vicious canibals, IMO. Mods GUT any that wish to have a differing of perspective and most of the rest tend to do the same. Makes us look petty and "unfun", again IMO.

Most of the folders were railroaded away from Folding for EVGA every bit as much by this sub-forum as their distaste for what FAH was doing for them as Donors, again IMO.

I don't wish to do FLU research so my CPU's are elsewhere.
And what happenned to Folding isn't about the POINTS?

Sean

Well I really I hope don't come across as your description else i'm truly disappointed.

texinga

I too, (at one time) was concerned that the Crunching component of our Team might have a reduction effect upon our Folding Team PPD.  However, we have still reached daily highs in Jan/Feb that rivaled our November-December highs. It helps to look at actual numbers when talking about what happened or is happening vs estimating these things. 

Daily average from Nov 1 thru Dec 31, 2011
EVGA = 19.9M
HardOCP = 18.3M

Daily average from Jan 1, 2012 thru today
EVGA = 20.1M
HardOCP = 21.9M

So, IMO our Folding Team is actually in good health and still Folding like a juggernaut.  We are being overtaken because we are being out-folded by another very organized and powerful team (HardOCP).  I actually find that a bit exciting because we are finally being given a "run for our money".  The competition has now become real vs running away with the top spot as we have done in the past.

I think we can safely say that our Team is pretty mighty for being able to start a very competitive Crunching Team while also maintaining very respectable Folding results.  What we have done in actuality is step into the same DC pool as [H] (and other DC Teams) with our added Crunching ability.  I absolutely do not see bad things in any of this and am a bit jazzed about how strong our entire DC Team has become.  We may not ultimately hold onto the #1 spot, but we are a "force to be reckoned with" and that makes me very proud of the EVGA DC Team. 

 
A minor flaw to your analysis is that the numbers through today include the "bucks days" at the beginning of the month and not our lower production occurring now.  If you post "through now" on the 29th, we will most likely be at or below the 19.9M from Nov & Dec.
 
I believe the major flaw in your analysis is that you look at such a time frame.  Looking at the larger trend, our primary strength has been our ability to grow by leaps and bounds.  How often did we see people make ridiculous long term goals that we consistently, completely blew away?  (i.e. https://sites.google.com/...ts/12-12-2012-1)  Projecting our current production into the future has always been a recipe for fail. 
 
That is, until now.  Excluding a few peaks  in contest months, our output essentially been stagnant the past year.  Namely, we never recovered from the summer slowdown (people folding less due to heat) and continued that pace into the winter months as other teams gained production.  Compare our current production to where we would be following our previous long term trend, and the stats tell a completely different story.  We have lost a good deal of production not in absolute numbers, but in growth.  Our stagnation defies our long run team history as well as the current trends of other teams. 
An off the cuff estimate is that we should be 23-25M+ PPD if we continued as we did in the past. (if it would make a difference, I can produce a much more accurate number).
 
It doesn't matter where the production went.  Whether people left folding because they were upset about recent changes, whether they decided to engage in crunching instead, or whatever else is irrelevant.  The numbers speak for themselves. 
 
Also, if things continue like this we might soon have to consider the possibility that we are looking at falling into 3rd place rather than second.  OCN is currently on our threats list and will come very close to out producing us for the month of Feb.

@Griffon,
I had no one person in mind with my post. You had valid comments. I'm over our "us" differences. It's simply about our Team(s). I'm concerned simply because we as Team(s) EVGA can't seem to let go and find our way back.
 
Point Pittsburgh, Pa has several professional sports teams. They overlap in seasons. None of the Pittsburghers lash out at another of their "Pittsburgh" bretheren because they feel more strongly about another "home" team in the overlaps.
 
The EVGA community is "growing out" and that should be a GOOD thing. I simply do not see it as such in following the drama. This community is (IMO) more than resilient enough to weather any storm that we need to. Except maybe our own.....

shdbcamping

@Griffon,
I had no one person in mind with my post. You had valid comments. I'm over our "us" differences. It's simply about our Team(s). I'm concerned simply because we as Team(s) EVGA can't seem to let go and find our way back.

Point Pittsburgh, Pa has several professional sports teams. They overlap in seasons. None of the Pittsburghers lash out at another of their "Pittsburgh" bretheren because they feel more strongly about another "home" team in the overlaps.

The EVGA community is "growing out" and that should be a GOOD thing. I simply do not see it as such in following the drama. This community is (IMO) more than resilient enough to weather any storm that we need to. Except maybe our own.....

 
 
See, you're blaming me for creating "drama" and "not letting go". There was no drama in my post, no complaining, no blames, no hard feelings. I was just analyzing the situation: "Why are we being overproduced by [H]?". I'm sorry but the answer to that question has to include "the move to Crunching and hard feelings towards PG", it's just inevitable. I'm reading my post again and again, I see no sarcasm (which was never intended), no blame, no negative feelings towards anybody. I specifically said "no offense and that I respect all donors", and I meant it. Then, out of the blue (it is because you don't post here much often), you come along all offended and actually making the drama yourself.
 
I (and I believe most, if not all, of folders) are over the fact that we lost some folders to crunching or else, but please you get over the sensitivity. Whenever someone says "Crunching" here on the Folding side, someone from the Crunching side stops by and responds as if there needs something to be said to defend your case. You don't need to do that, especially when there was no blame or something.
 
Do I have to say this more openly? I don't have no negative feelings towards Crunching donors, so please stop getting offended for every little comment involving Crunching.
 
And, it's theGryphon (I had to say this because you insist on misspelling).
 

Then again, if I remove three months of numbers, there isn't any growth either.  Eh... fold'em, crunch'em... it's all tasty goodness.
 

troy8d

texinga
Troy, what numbers are you looking at that say we have been stagnant for the past year?  I have data going back to Nov 1, 2010 and I don't see stagnation.  Our production is more like a growth stock at times with sharp peaks an valleys, but still an upward overall trend over longer periods.  If I look back a year from Jan 1, 2011 through Jan 1 2012, I see that in Jan 2011 we stood at ~ 14M per day.  Coming forward to this past January, that figure is up ~ 19M per day.  Now maybe it isn't the "growth" that you expect over a year, but I'd hardly label it as "stagnant".

Anyone can use whatever numbers or time-period they wish and also can spin things they want they want.  We all know that about numbers.  I wasn't trying to win the all-encompassing-numerical-analysis award, just voicing my thoughts based upon how I see it.  Anyone is free to develop and share their own numbers, but I'm still proud of this Team under the conditions that I see.

Don't infer that I am spinning the numbers - the numbers are what they are.  The spin comes when you try to attribute a cause to it, which I have no interest in.
http://folding.extremeove...ry.php?s=&t=111065
Look at it monthly.  Taking out contest months of Mar, May, Oct and Nov, we have little to no growth the past year.

I was talking about "me" and anyone that wants to share numerical analysis when I made mention of "spinning numbers".  I was not pointing that comment directly at you.  One difference between you and I is that I don't feel the need to filter out EVGA Bucks days or contests from my numbers.  They are real events that happen every month and every year, so to filter them out (to me) is massaging the numbers.  Let's just leave this as we see things differently.  I'm not going to try to get into an analysis debate with you and my original purpose for this post was simply a "heads up" to the Team in case some were not aware.

texinga

troy8d

texinga
Troy, what numbers are you looking at that say we have been stagnant for the past year?  I have data going back to Nov 1, 2010 and I don't see stagnation.  Our production is more like a growth stock at times with sharp peaks an valleys, but still an upward overall trend over longer periods.  If I look back a year from Jan 1, 2011 through Jan 1 2012, I see that in Jan 2011 we stood at ~ 14M per day.  Coming forward to this past January, that figure is up ~ 19M per day.  Now maybe it isn't the "growth" that you expect over a year, but I'd hardly label it as "stagnant".

Anyone can use whatever numbers or time-period they wish and also can spin things they want they want.  We all know that about numbers.  I wasn't trying to win the all-encompassing-numerical-analysis award, just voicing my thoughts based upon how I see it.  Anyone is free to develop and share their own numbers, but I'm still proud of this Team under the conditions that I see.

Don't infer that I am spinning the numbers - the numbers are what they are.  The spin comes when you try to attribute a cause to it, which I have no interest in.
http://folding.extremeove...ry.php?s=&t=111065
Look at it monthly.  Taking out contest months of Mar, May, Oct and Nov, we have little to no growth the past year.

I was talking about "me" and anyone that wants to share numerical analysis when I made mention of "spinning numbers".  I was not pointing that comment directly at you.  One difference between you and I is that I don't feel the need to filter out EVGA Bucks days or contests from my numbers.  They are real events that happen every month and every year, so to filter them out (to me) is massaging the numbers.  Let's just leave this as we see things differently.  I'm not going to try to get into an analysis debate with you and my original purpose for this post was simply a "heads up" to the Team in case some were not aware.

 
Well, as someone with a bit of training in statistics, I cannot in good conscious ignore them.  Regularly occuring patterns in data are normalized in order to prevent misrepresentation.  What if you put up these numbers on Feb 5 (about the height of bucks folding)?  Obviously they would be skewed (more so than the numbers you have).  See also: seasonally adjusted data.
 
Removing recent contest months is good statistical practice because they are exogenously motivated outliers and do not reflect our true monthly production.  Contest production has reached extreme heights as of late and skew the real numbers further than before.  If it makes you feel better, go ahead and remove all previous contests in the past 5 years and the trends do not change. 

well this banter oughta git everyone ready for the upcoming contest, huh?
 
I'm weary personally, as well as not caring who's more correct and/or mor qualified to be correct.
 
THEY (H) are gaining. Ungain them or simply accept it.... or,,,, do something about it. Why are we arguing about why/how they are gaining?
 
Oh, and I'm still "Folding" so there... lol

texinga

Gryphon, I do not think of you as having any animosity either.  As I read through your summary, I was saying to myself "yep, yep and yep".  You did a fine job of summarizing things IMO.

Just wanted to let you know how I feel about you. 

Whatev..... Who called griffon out other than himself anyway?

ramcharger89

My thought is that some people at [h] have payed for some "Cloud Time" and if they can afford to pay for it then it's theirs to have!

Now if we can come up with some kind of plan to slow down the [h] fine, if not that's fine too.

We do still have a 1.3BILLION point lead!


Hi Sean 
  

Hi Ram ,
My point as well. Fix it with a plan or quit whining and blaming. EVGA is better than that.
JIMO, YMMV 
EDIT: Still looking for that I7 920? 

Hi,
Im a long time reader of this forum and a fellow folder from another team(OCN). Its sad to see that this great community of folders is falling apart just because you cant agree to disagree. At OCN we are changing our way of thinking on how to be more effective at folding. Its clear that cpu folding is where this project is heading and we started building 2/4p systems. You get more ppd/watt. I'm not saying is right or wrong is just what it is. It would be nice if maybe you can use your EVGA bucks towards the new SR-X system and help out folders that want to build powerful 2p rigs. Anyways, just want to say hi and share my 2 cents. Stay strong cause we are coming for you.
 
PS: I have an older account but wanted this one to match my folding name. No trolling here.

shdbcamping

well this banter oughta git everyone ready for the upcoming contest, huh?

I'm weary personally, as well as not caring who's more correct and/or mor qualified to be correct.

THEY (H) are gaining. Ungain them or simply accept it.... or,,,, do something about it. Why are we arguing about why/how they are gaining?

Oh, and I'm still "Folding" so there... lol

 
I, for one, know that you never gave up folding - and if you're folding anyway, why not join the contest? 
 
I could be wrong, but I find it is useful to discuss the reasons for the change before attempting to remedy it.  Blindly attempting to solve an unknown problem can lead to much wasted effort.  My approach is simply to observe trends and look at what the data is telling us.  Blaming an individual or collection of individuals, however, is not acceptable.  We're all volunteers & donors and participate of our own volition. 
 
I have not addressed the folding vs crunching, and do not care to -w herever you focus your efforts, you're doing something good.  But I suppose the direction of this thread gone has made ignoring the issue entirely impossible.  Yes, some production from FAH went to crunching, denying that would be ridiculous.  What is important to keep in mind, however, is that there is no way to know exactly to what degree that impacted folding output.  After PG made some changes to their program, many people that transitioned to another project might have left distributed computing altogether if not presented with an alternative.  Additionally, many crunchers fold and many folders crunch.  And a good number of people joined crunching were not current folders. The degree to which crunching and folders intertwine is arbitrary speculation at this point.
 
The primary argument, though, as to why we should not care is that many of the causes that Crunching supports are just as valid as Folding.  In my opinion, some of them are also a colossal waste of time - but the beauty of crunching is you can devote your efforts to what interests you.
 
A healthy discussion can get us pointed in the right direction but lets drop the attacks, especially because we are all on the same team here working to a common goal. 

Any analysis of this team's or any team's production recently is not going to be accurate because of HPCS beta. I agree with a lot that's been said and don't understand why there are arguments over trivial details. We are losing points due to crunching, the amount we're losing is irrelevant, but you can't rationally debate that fact. We are losing points because some heavy hitters have stopped folding for various reasons. After the beta is over I hope the difference in production becomes smaller, it's hard to believe that the 5 million ppd difference is accurate without the help of HPCS. I'm 100% for the science,not the points, of this project. That being said, seeing a future where EVGA isn't #1 makes me want to build a 4p system that much more.  I'm sure it's been brought up before and maybe now is the time to revisit the concept of a community funded big rig(s).  I would gladly donate to a system pulling in huge numbers.