Re: AMD -v- NVIDIA Less 970/980 Cards BA Stopping Next Year, what will our BA users do?
2014/11/10 20:11:19
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mdk7777777
Grey-Beard
I not only feel your pain, I anticipated it.
Three weeks ago I wrote to the researcher that was developing the WU using core 18.:
I wrote the following to kyleb regarding my opinion of this strategy:
"Pushing this type of WU is very poor for donor morale. It shows a lack of respect for the donors investment, time and electricity.
This is the worst of all options. In order of preference the options are:
1. continue to supply only the limited working WU to Maxwell cards
2. suspend Maxwell support until the cores/driver issues are resolved
3. send out intentionally crippled WU that run at 1/4 speed and don't inform donors of any plan to resolve the issues."
As per usual when PM PG, I had no response.
I have been permanently banned (Censored) from the FOLDING FORUM because I advocate for some communication, some respect for the donors.
I understand why you find it personal.
What I can never understand is why PG does not think community support is worth their time.
My opinion is that they will resolve the situation in their own time (weeks, months, perhaps years)
I would not hold my breath waiting for anyone to explain their rational to you.
They have proven again and again that they do not think it is worth their time.
Sad but for the most part True. 
post edited by bcavnaugh - 2015/01/02 19:53:35
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bill1024
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Re: ADM -v- NVIDIA Less 970/980 Cards BA Stopping Next Year, what will our BA users do?
2014/11/10 20:44:14
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They crippled Fermi cards to make Kelper cards work. Hope they don't have to cripple Kelper to make Maxwell work.
post edited by bill1024 - 2014/11/10 20:46:01
Life is too short to carry a cheap pocket knife. CaseXX, Al Mar, Hubertus, Frank b, A\B, SchattMorgan U25ITA93JV 
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Re: AMD -v- NVIDIA Less 970/980 Cards BA Stopping Next Year, what will our BA users do?
2014/11/10 20:49:20
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bill1024
They crippled Fermi cards to make Kelper cards work.
Hope they don't have to cripple Kelper to make Maxwell work.
That really would cripple me all around. I really hope they do not do this.
post edited by bcavnaugh - 2015/01/02 19:53:49
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Re: ADM -v- NVIDIA Less 970/980 Cards BA Stopping Next Year, what will our BA users do?
2014/11/11 09:44:10
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I updated the new driver yesterday, 344.65, and now I am back to levels I was before. Just noticed my daily average is now over 600,000 ppd. What a roller coaster. This does not have to be this hard, does it? I am refining my response to the Folding group and I am hopeful that I will not get banned for voicing my opinion regarding value and personal commitment. Even if I am banned from a forum, I will continue to commit to this cause because this is personal for me. If they cripple Kelper, then I will lose much of what I have today to fold with. Maybe my Maxwell investment is worth it. Two more cards arriving today.
post edited by Grey_Beard - 2014/11/11 09:46:30
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Re: AMD -v- NVIDIA Less 970/980 Cards BA Stopping Next Year, what will our BA users do?
2014/11/11 10:02:31
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Grey_Beard
I updated the new driver yesterday, 344.65, and now I am back to levels I was before. Just noticed my daily average is now over 600,000 ppd. What a roller coaster. This does not have to be this hard, does it? I am refining my response to the Folding group and I am hopeful that I will not get banned for voicing my opinion regarding value and personal commitment. Even if I am banned from a forum, I will continue to commit to this cause because this is personal for me. If they cripple Kelper, then I will lose much of what I have today to fold with. Maybe my Maxwell investment is worth it. Two more cards arriving today.
So then Driver 344.65 seems to be good for Folding then.
post edited by bcavnaugh - 2015/01/02 19:54:30
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Re: ADM -v- NVIDIA Less 970/980 Cards BA Stopping Next Year, what will our BA users do?
2014/11/11 10:35:03
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So far, I would say yes, but this has been a fickle situation. Will update as the day progresses to see if this sticks.
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mdk7777777
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Re: ADM -v- NVIDIA Less 970/980 Cards BA Stopping Next Year, what will our BA users do?
2014/11/11 11:18:50
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Regarding the situation and willingness for PG to respond. I was allowed to post here https://foldingforum.org/viewtopic.php?f=61&t=26997 Thread was quickly locked. That helps how exactly? I guess you are just supposed to quit rather than ask for problems to be resolved?
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Re: AMD -v- NVIDIA Less 970/980 Cards BA Stopping Next Year, what will our BA users do?
2014/11/11 11:33:48
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mdk7777777
Regarding the situation and willingness for PG to respond.
I was allowed to post here
https://foldingforum.org/viewtopic.php?f=61&t=26997
Thread was quickly locked.
That helps how exactly?
I guess you are just supposed to quit rather than ask for problems to be resolved?
At least they post that it is "generally true" While what you're saying may be generally true, it has all been said before -- repeatedly -- and we don't need another topic filled with depressing predictions. Unfortunately, as mods/admins, we have no power to change the things you're griping about.
post edited by bcavnaugh - 2015/01/02 19:54:44
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mdk7777777
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Re: ADM -v- NVIDIA Less 970/980 Cards BA Stopping Next Year, what will our BA users do?
2014/11/11 13:03:39
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Well, as I mentioned, they did allow my post without any censorship.
However, I don't see how locking the thread helps donors like grey_beard get their issues resolved.
If the admins and mods don't have any authority or ability, they should at least allow posts that bring problems to the attention of those who can affect change.
Anyway, just confirms my experience.
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Re: ADM -v- NVIDIA Less 970/980 Cards BA Stopping Next Year, what will our BA users do?
2014/11/11 14:08:04
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The new driver may have done the trick. Still at over 600,000 ppd. Anyone else seeing an increase since they started using the new driver? Edit: Just realized that I did not activate SLI, maybe SLI is the issue, not the driver. Will leave this go and see before I go back to activate SLI. Very interesting. Edit 2: SLI has no impact. Put in SLI after Folding went back down to around 350,000 ppd.
post edited by Grey_Beard - 2014/11/11 18:01:19
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heikosch
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Re: ADM -v- NVIDIA Less 970/980 Cards BA Stopping Next Year, what will our BA users do?
2014/11/11 23:51:51
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Grey_Beard
The new driver may have done the trick. Still at over 600,000 ppd. Anyone else seeing an increase since they started using the new driver?
Edit: Just realized that I did not activate SLI, maybe SLI is the issue, not the driver. Will leave this go and see before I go back to activate SLI. Very interesting.
Edit 2: SLI has no impact. Put in SLI after Folding went back down to around 350,000 ppd.
Regarding folding 344.65 is not different to 344.60 and the SLI setting should do nothing for or against folding. Probably "only" an installation issue. Did you use the checkbox to "perform a clean installation"? If your installation is really botched you might want to use a display driver uninstaller program. But beware this procedure will take some time. Heiko
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Re: ADM -v- NVIDIA Less 970/980 Cards BA Stopping Next Year, what will our BA users do?
2014/11/12 06:58:47
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heikosch
Grey_Beard
The new driver may have done the trick. Still at over 600,000 ppd. Anyone else seeing an increase since they started using the new driver?
Edit: Just realized that I did not activate SLI, maybe SLI is the issue, not the driver. Will leave this go and see before I go back to activate SLI. Very interesting.
Edit 2: SLI has no impact. Put in SLI after Folding went back down to around 350,000 ppd.
Regarding folding 344.65 is not different to 344.60 and the SLI setting should do nothing for or against folding.
Probably "only" an installation issue.
Did you use the checkbox to "perform a clean installation"?
If your installation is really botched you might want to use a display driver uninstaller program. But beware this procedure will take some time.
Heiko
I always do a clean install. Just think this is a NVidia driver issue with Folding, as these cards do not generate the points they once did. Stanford seem to be more AMD oriented lately. Must be the demise of mining and now wanting to use those resources for Folding. Just my conjecture. I am now running around 400,000 ppd on three 780 Ti's. Should be better but, who knows. Thanks for the input, I appreciate it.
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Re: ADM -v- NVIDIA Less 970/980 Cards BA Stopping Next Year, what will our BA users do?
2014/11/12 09:29:37
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Re: ADM -v- NVIDIA Less 970/980 Cards BA Stopping Next Year, what will our BA users do?
2014/11/12 10:15:11
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Drazhar
What project?
Currently seeing 17's on all my GPUs right now. All seems to be back with a vengeance. Back up to where I should be on ppd. Still an interesting ride.
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Re: AMD -v- NVIDIA Less 970/980 Cards BA Stopping Next Year, what will our BA users do?
2014/11/12 10:38:56
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Testing Driver 344.65 now on my Titan, 780, 690 See Post: http://forums.evga.com/FindPost/2250425 I would think that for 900 Watts and 3 GTX 690 would produce more than 7600 PPD. Project 9201 Start at over 16 Hours Project P13000 Start at over 10 Days Project P13001 Start at over 10 Days
post edited by bcavnaugh - 2015/01/02 19:55:00
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Re: ADM -v- NVIDIA Less 970/980 Cards BA Stopping Next Year, what will our BA users do?
2014/11/12 10:52:55
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bcavnaugh
Testing Driver 344.65 now on my Titan, 780, 690
See Post: http://forums.evga.com/FindPost/2250425
I would think that for 900 Watts and 3 GTX 690 would produce more than 7600 PPD.
Project 9201 Start at over 16 Hours
Project P13000 Start at over 10 Days
Project P13001 Start at over 10 Days
Here is what I am getting at this moment with 780 Ti's: 
post edited by Grey_Beard - 2014/11/12 10:57:22
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Re: AMD -v- NVIDIA Less 970/980 Cards BA Stopping Next Year, what will our BA users do?
2014/11/12 11:00:27
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Grey_Beard
bcavnaugh
Testing Driver 344.65 now on my Titan, 780, 690
See Post: http://forums.evga.com/FindPost/2250425
I would think that for 900 Watts and 3 GTX 690 would produce more than 7600 PPD.
Project 9201 Start at over 16 Hours
Project P13000 Start at over 10 Days
Project P13001 Start at over 10 Days
Here is what I am getting at this moment with 780 Ti's:
Your PPD is that of my 2 R9 290X GPUs. And you are also running SMP. I still think something is wrong with FAH and NVIDIA -v- AMD.
post edited by bcavnaugh - 2015/01/02 19:55:18
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Re: ADM -v- NVIDIA Less 970/980 Cards BA Stopping Next Year, what will our BA users do?
2014/11/12 11:07:30
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 There was an error accessing/using the database. The Folding@home team is working to fix this issue. So I cannot check Status.
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Re: ADM -v- NVIDIA Less 970/980 Cards BA Stopping Next Year, what will our BA users do?
2014/11/12 11:11:40
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I agree something is still amiss. This has been an interesting ride. I have tried many different things and researched this on Folding forum, but as you said most of the issues regarding points and awarding of points are threads which are locked. I guess they protect this like it is some kind of secret sauce.
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heikosch
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Re: ADM -v- NVIDIA Less 970/980 Cards BA Stopping Next Year, what will our BA users do?
2014/11/12 12:20:42
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@Grey_Beard It seems that you mix up different issues: - Geforce driver performance - PPD values of different projects Your 3 GTX 780 Ti fold completly different projects: Core 0x17 projects 9201 and 13001 have a high QRB (Quick Return Bonus), so you get high PPD . Core 0x15 project 7624 has no bonus, so you get really low PPD (only one third!) All PPD values in your screenshot are in line with known performance of a GTX 780 Ti (without OC). With 3 core 0x15 projects you get only 200k PPD but with 3 core 0x17 projects >600k PPD. Heiko PS: I hate the german autocorrection that always capitalizes english nouns. ;-)
post edited by heikosch - 2014/11/12 12:29:24
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Re: ADM -v- NVIDIA Less 970/980 Cards BA Stopping Next Year, what will our BA users do?
2014/11/12 12:54:23
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heikosch
@Grey_Beard
It seems that you mix up different issues:
- Geforce driver performance
- PPD values of different projects
Your 3 GTX 780 Ti fold completly different projects:
Core 0x17 projects 9201 and 13001 have a high QRB (Quick Return Bonus), so you get high PPD .
Core 0x15 project 7624 has no bonus, so you get really low PPD (only one third!)
All PPD values in your screenshot are in line with known performance of a GTX 780 Ti (without OC).
With 3 core 0x15 projects you get only 200k PPD but with 3 core 0x17 projects >600k PPD.
Heiko
PS: I hate the german autocorrection that always capitalizes english nouns. ;-)
Thanks for the explanation. This is a random kind of thing and I get what I get. I appreciate the guidance, Heiko.
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Re: ADM -v- NVIDIA Less 970/980 Cards BA Stopping Next Year, what will our BA users do?
2014/11/12 13:15:02
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heikosch
@Grey_Beard
It seems that you mix up different issues:
- Geforce driver performance
- PPD values of different projects
Your 3 GTX 780 Ti fold completly different projects:
Core 0x17 projects 9201 and 13001 have a high QRB (Quick Return Bonus), so you get high PPD .
Core 0x15 project 7624 has no bonus, so you get really low PPD (only one third!)
All PPD values in your screenshot are in line with known performance of a GTX 780 Ti (without OC).
With 3 core 0x15 projects you get only 200k PPD but with 3 core 0x17 projects >600k PPD.
Heiko
PS: I hate the german autocorrection that always capitalizes english nouns. ;-)
Yea +1 on the core difference, I know I can get something like 300k pdd on my 980 with core 17 but core 15 drops me down to like 90k ppd. Its becoming more noticeable because core15's seem to be getting handed out more often nowadays, but its no where near consistent. AMD will not receive any of these core15's because they are cuda based and will not run on AMD gpu's. That being said the new core18 seems just as bad(in terms of pdd drop off) as core15 and runs on AMD, so they aren't exactly safe from these things either anymore.
post edited by dave851 - 2014/11/12 13:18:13
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Re: AMD -v- NVIDIA Less 970/980 Cards BA Stopping Next Year, what will our BA users do?
2014/11/15 17:22:10
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This Weeks Testing: Text Removed P13001  P9201 
post edited by bcavnaugh - 2015/01/02 20:08:00
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heikosch2
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Re: ADM -v- NVIDIA Less 970/980 Cards BA Stopping Next Year, what will our BA users do?
2014/11/16 01:29:18
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@bcavnaugh
Could you please explain your diagrams?
The proportion between credits and PPD for P13001 is incomprehensible.
Heiko
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Re: AMD -v- NVIDIA Less 970/980 Cards BA Stopping Next Year, what will our BA users do?
2014/11/16 09:46:54
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heikosch2
@bcavnaugh
Could you please explain your diagrams?
The proportion between credits and PPD for P13001 is incomprehensible.
Heiko
See http://weather.mfc-cs.com/haf/ Image below was taken at time of this post. I am not comparing PPD to Credit I and comparing; PPD to PPD between GPUs Credits to Credits between GPUs TFP to TFP between GPUs Work Units to Work Units between GPUs. 
post edited by bcavnaugh - 2015/01/02 20:08:12
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heikosch2
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Re: ADM -v- NVIDIA Less 970/980 Cards BA Stopping Next Year, what will our BA users do?
2014/11/16 13:04:27
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bcavnaugh
heikosch2
@bcavnaugh
Could you please explain your diagrams?
The proportion between credits and PPD for P13001 is incomprehensible.
Heiko
See http://weather.mfc-cs.com/haf/ Image below was taken at time of this post.
I am not comparing PPD to Credit I and comparing;
PPD to PPD between GPUs
Credits to Credits between GPUs
TFP to TFP between GPUs
Work Units to Work Units between GPUs.
There are no values for the GTX 780 in your screenshot. But I can see that the GTX 680 needs more than 24h to complete P13001. So the PPD value is smaller than the credit value. The mismatch in the proportions between GTX 680 and GTX 780 in the diagrams for credits and PPD confused me. Now it´s clear. Heiko
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Re: AMD -v- NVIDIA Less 970/980 Cards BA Stopping Next Year, what will our BA users do?
2014/11/16 15:03:39
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heikosch2
bcavnaugh
heikosch2
@bcavnaugh
Could you please explain your diagrams?
The proportion between credits and PPD for P13001 is incomprehensible.
Heiko
See http://weather.mfc-cs.com/haf/ Image below was taken at time of this post.
I am not comparing PPD to Credit I and comparing;
PPD to PPD between GPUs
Credits to Credits between GPUs
TFP to TFP between GPUs
Work Units to Work Units between GPUs.
There are no values for the GTX 780 in your screenshot.
But I can see that the GTX 680 needs more than 24h to complete P13001. So the PPD value is smaller than the credit value. The mismatch in the proportions between GTX 680 and GTX 780 in the diagrams for credits and PPD confused me. Now it´s clear.
Heiko
Because what you are looking at are live stats, I am NOT Folding on my GTX 780 or 690 today. But you can now see one of my Titans now.
post edited by bcavnaugh - 2015/01/02 20:08:58
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Re: ADM -v- NVIDIA Less 970/980 Cards BA Stopping Next Year, what will our BA users do?
2014/11/16 21:30:45
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Worth is a very subjective thing, and while I appreciate your effort in putting all the numbers together and all that, making a blanket statement like " So any card Below GTX 780 is not really worth Folding anymore" feels... eh.
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Re: AMD -v- NVIDIA Less 970/980 Cards BA Stopping Next Year, what will our BA users do?
2014/11/16 22:02:26
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Drazhar
Worth is a very subjective thing, and while I appreciate your effort in putting all the numbers together and all that, making a blanket statement like " So any card Below GTX 780 is not really worth Folding anymore" feels... eh.
Well for me it is not, Cost Wise for the power needed to run them. I will remove the Below and all the text with it.
post edited by bcavnaugh - 2015/01/02 20:09:15
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Zuhl3156
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Re: ADM -v- NVIDIA Less 970/980 Cards BA Stopping Next Year, what will our BA users do?
2014/11/17 17:05:35
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Grey_Beard
The new driver may have done the trick. Still at over 600,000 ppd. Anyone else seeing an increase since they started using the new driver?
Edit: Just realized that I did not activate SLI, maybe SLI is the issue, not the driver. Will leave this go and see before I go back to activate SLI. Very interesting.
Edit 2: SLI has no impact. Put in SLI after Folding went back down to around 350,000 ppd.
The new driver worked for me at first then after 2 days my ppd dropped to zilch again. I more than tripled my previous ppd for two days in a row and then the bottom fell out. I uninstalled the Folding Client and deleted data, rolled back drivers, updated drivers and I still got squat. A WU that was down to 10 hours increased its duration to 14 hours then 18 hours on my GPU. As much as I want to contribute it isn't worth the electricity to run these projects for me. I have given up and deleted everything including a WU that needed another 18 hours to finish after only being 25% completed.
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