rjohnson11
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knightsilver
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Re: AMD Announces the Athlon 860K and FX-8300 CPUs
2014/08/01 04:13:48
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That FX-8300 at 95watt, now if it could do 5Ghz on air and at $100, AMD would be getting smart again.
AMD, has forgotten their roots "I swear"......
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Boogyman93
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Re: AMD Announces the Athlon 860K and FX-8300 CPUs
2014/08/02 10:40:44
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Still AM3+, still 32nm and still no PCI-e 3.0. I think they want to fail in the desktop CPU department.
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lehpron
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Re: AMD Announces the Athlon 860K and FX-8300 CPUs
2014/08/02 11:40:37
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knightsilver
That FX-8300 at 95watt, now if it could do 5Ghz on air and at $100, AMD would be getting smart again. AMD, has forgotten their roots "I swear"...... Which roots are we talking about? Prior to Core 2, their roots had more transistors per core than Intel, which accounted for most of the instructions per clock and didn't need as high a frequency to compete, a 2GHz AMD Athlon 64 single-core matched up to a 3GHz Pentium 4. But since, then tables have turned, and Intel's smaller process allowed so much room to pack in more transistors without taking a wattage hit and not require such a high frequency or as many cores to compete. They literally have to hope that Intel gets more delays with future process shrinks to catch up with them. Boogyman93
Still AM3+, still 32nm and still no PCI-e 3.0. I think they want to fail in the desktop CPU department. Pure CPU in mainstream Client market is a dead market anyway, Intel hasn't been making pure CPUs in mainstream over four years since everything has an a GPU, memory controller and PCIe controller. The FMx sockets are the competitors to LGA115x sockets since they both share dual-channel DDR and more integrated logic; it just makes sense to introduce new stuff there. The Athlon 860K on the other hand, that is a Kaveri w/IGP disabled, i.e. an equivalent to a hypothetical Steamroller-based FX4500 in FM2+ instead of AM3+. It is a start. That said, if the upcoming 20nm process is applied to APUs on 28nm, they could pack in twice the number of compute cores to meet up to the same wattage levels; but how much of an impact would an 8-core APU at 3.7GHz with 1024-stream processors at 720MHz at 95W TDP have?
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Boogyman93
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Re: AMD Announces the Athlon 860K and FX-8300 CPUs
2014/08/02 14:31:29
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lehpron
Pure CPU in mainstream Client market is a dead market anyway, Intel hasn't been making pure CPUs in mainstream over four years since everything has an a GPU, memory controller and PCIe controller. The FMx sockets are the competitors to LGA115x sockets since they both share dual-channel DDR and more integrated logic; it just makes sense to introduce new stuff there.
The Athlon 860K on the other hand, that is a Kaveri w/IGP disabled, i.e. an equivalent to a hypothetical Steamroller-based FX4500 in FM2+ instead of AM3+. It is a start.
That said, if the upcoming 20nm process is applied to APUs on 28nm, they could pack in twice the number of compute cores to meet up to the same wattage levels; but how much of an impact would an 8-core APU at 3.7GHz with 1024-stream processors at 720MHz at 95W TDP have?
What Intel has and hasn't been doing isn't my concern. Intel has been failing at innovating and at bringing new practical stuff to the table ever since their first dual-core CPU's. The only reason they have been the top performer is purely due to higher market share and having the money to bring new products to the market faster. The pure CPU market isn't dead, the economy is stagnating and that has simply reduced PC sales. I don't think people want to pay extra for an integrated GPU that nobody uses in desktop PC's and only ends up crippling the CPU by reducing it's performance potential. In Intel's case, the die space that the integrated GPU uses on the high end CPU's such as the 4770k could well have been used for 2 more extra cores. I am not against hybrid CPU's (or APU's) for the low-end market, laptops and gaming consoles. But for the mid-range and high-end desktop market, pure CPU's should be the standard. You won't see people with a high-end gaming machine that has a 4790K and they use the integrated GPU. As long as there are PCI-e slots in mid-range and high-end motherboards, there will be dedicated GPU's and no need for integrated ones. Furthermore, the need for 8-core and 6-core CPU's is around the corner. Since both consoles have an 8-core CPU in them (6 cores used for games) games will begin to be optimized only for such CPU's once the previous generation of consoles finally becomes irrelevant. I personally would have been using an FX 8-core CPU right now if it had PCI-e 3.0 support and a smaller manufacturing process.
 
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knightsilver
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Re: AMD Announces the Athlon 860K and FX-8300 CPUs
2014/08/02 18:16:58
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Agree with Boogynan93, yes sir!
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seth89
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Re: AMD Announces the Athlon 860K and FX-8300 CPUs
2014/08/03 08:46:09
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Whats their road map for GPUs? Was the R9 290x a one trick pony or do they have more great stuff coming out?
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Boogyman93
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Re: AMD Announces the Athlon 860K and FX-8300 CPUs
2014/08/03 09:37:52
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Grey_Beard
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Re: AMD Announces the Athlon 860K and FX-8300 CPUs
2014/08/03 12:11:34
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Boogyman93
lehpron
Pure CPU in mainstream Client market is a dead market anyway, Intel hasn't been making pure CPUs in mainstream over four years since everything has an a GPU, memory controller and PCIe controller. The FMx sockets are the competitors to LGA115x sockets since they both share dual-channel DDR and more integrated logic; it just makes sense to introduce new stuff there.
The Athlon 860K on the other hand, that is a Kaveri w/IGP disabled, i.e. an equivalent to a hypothetical Steamroller-based FX4500 in FM2+ instead of AM3+. It is a start.
That said, if the upcoming 20nm process is applied to APUs on 28nm, they could pack in twice the number of compute cores to meet up to the same wattage levels; but how much of an impact would an 8-core APU at 3.7GHz with 1024-stream processors at 720MHz at 95W TDP have?
What Intel has and hasn't been doing isn't my concern. Intel has been failing at innovating and at bringing new practical stuff to the table ever since their first dual-core CPU's. The only reason they have been the top performer is purely due to higher market share and having the money to bring new products to the market faster.
The pure CPU market isn't dead, the economy is stagnating and that has simply reduced PC sales. I don't think people want to pay extra for an integrated GPU that nobody uses in desktop PC's and only ends up crippling the CPU by reducing it's performance potential. In Intel's case, the die space that the integrated GPU uses on the high end CPU's such as the 4770k could well have been used for 2 more extra cores. I am not against hybrid CPU's (or APU's) for the low-end market, laptops and gaming consoles. But for the mid-range and high-end desktop market, pure CPU's should be the standard. You won't see people with a high-end gaming machine that has a 4790K and they use the integrated GPU. As long as there are PCI-e slots in mid-range and high-end motherboards, there will be dedicated GPU's and no need for integrated ones. Furthermore, the need for 8-core and 6-core CPU's is around the corner. Since both consoles have an 8-core CPU in them (6 cores used for games) games will begin to be optimized only for such CPU's once the previous generation of consoles finally becomes irrelevant.
I personally would have been using an FX 8-core CPU right now if it had PCI-e 3.0 support and a smaller manufacturing process.
Although I agree with the GPU statement in high-end CPUs, the 4930K and 4970X both have no GPU. They are true six-core processors. The new Devil's Canyon do not include the Haswell-E which is 2 qtr. 2015, but these are true six and eight-core processors. Sandy Bridge was an eight-core with two cores disabled, as I am glad to see that not happening any more. Consoles will never take over PCs. A four-core PC can do much more than a six-core console. In gaming, the six-core processing power is not as relevant as the GPU. New games will be cloud-based and the new Intel Server customizable chips will be doing that crunching, but the GPU will matter. I agree that an eight-core CPU that does not support PIC-e 3.0 and is 32nm, yes 32nm, is lagging behind the competition. Intel has to work hard at not leaving them in the dust. Why they thought years ago that a struggling CPU company and a struggling GPU could compete better as one entity rather than two is befuddling to me.
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lehpron
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Re: AMD Announces the Athlon 860K and FX-8300 CPUs
2014/08/05 16:03:56
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Boogyman93The pure CPU market isn't dead, the economy is stagnating and that has simply reduced PC sales. I'm not talking about PC sales or stagnant economies, I'm talking about where Intel applies which technology attribute since the entire market isn't cohesive, and the segment that buys mainstream doesn't need the entire gradient of full features each die can present at once; those that do should pay for it. Those that want more should go to the other sockets they provide with many other attributes. Boogyman93...and only ends up crippling the CPU by reducing it's performance potential. Can you prove the latter and how do you mean it? In terms of demand, AMD made two options with their IGP disabled while Intel made only one (Core i5-2550K) and never succeeded it. Boogyman93
In Intel's case, the die space that the integrated GPU uses on the high end CPU's such as the 4770k could well have been used for 2 more extra cores. Could have, sure; but is there a competitive threat by AMD to steal away Intel quad-core sales if they don't? No; that being said, it isn't like what you want isn't offered. What you're doing is analogous to complaining there is no SLI in mainstream graphics cards like GTX750 Ti, but rather than get high-end with SLI options, you think nVidia should make SLI for low-end. Boogyman93I am not against hybrid CPU's (or APU's) for the low-end market, laptops and gaming consoles. Well that is awesome, some 94% buy those types, and happens to be what I'm talking about when I say "Pure CPU in the mainstream Client market is dead anyway", it has been dead for years. Boogyman93But for the mid-range and high-end desktop market, pure CPU's should be the standard. It is, if you went for X79 and upcoming X99; Intel created that platform for your type of thinking, you just got to go there. Boogyman93Since both consoles have an 8-core CPU in them (6 cores used for games) games will begin to be optimized only for such CPU's once the previous generation of consoles finally becomes irrelevant. The IBM CPU in the Xbox 360, for example, had three cores w/HT making 6-threads; yet console ports since then were not coded from the get-go for more cores that weren't available for consumer purchase for years. We can't say for certain had we had the extra CPU cores back then whether would we have needed it for those ports over those years. Therefore, this generation of console ports will be the experiment to test everyone's theories, we just have to wait a few years to gather enough data and not jump conclusions like some are doing with BF4 and other recent ports. It is too early to talk of CPU optimization.
post edited by lehpron - 2014/08/05 16:07:56
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