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Answered970 FTW + will not run past 8x

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NickNasc
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2016/02/03 18:23:09 (permalink)
It ran fine on my z97 classy until I added a ssd ( 950 Pro Samsung M.2 Via a four lane pcie adapter in the last slot)  I tried it in the third slot with the same results.  It will not go into 16x mode when tested.    Don't know what to do here.  first lane is set to auto and it is running in 3.0 but just won't shift up to 16x under load like it used to.  I also tried updating to the latest drivers as well. all other slots are empty.
 
help?

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Zuhl3156
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Re: 970 FTW + will not run past 8x 2016/02/03 18:29:57 (permalink)
As far as I know your CPU only has 16 PCI-E lanes. Whenever you install anything else into a PCI-E slot it is going to leech some of your PCI-E lanes dropping your usage to 8x on your video board.
http://ark.intel.com/products/80807/Intel-Core-i7-4790K-Processor-8M-Cache-up-to-4_40-GHz
 
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NickNasc
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Re: 970 FTW + will not run past 8x 2016/02/03 19:06:24 (permalink)
well isn't that just PERFECT.  SO I guess my "badass" set-up is just too weak to use just a year after i built it LOL  I get a new vid card and a new drive and now all the rest of my gear is the bottleneck..  Why then did so many people buy this expensive board for 4x sli??  the 4790K was the best at the time too. 
 
So just my card ALONE was taking up ALL of the pcie express lanes???  REALLY???  Everything else empty and I am Maxed out???
 
Seriously feeling a bit ripped off right now.  I Overbuy so I have headroom for expansion and it seems I couldn't update a single thing on this top of the line board since the day I paid for it.
 
SO now I get 1 970 ftw+  that is now cut in half to 8 lanes    and a new Drive Samsung 950 pro ssd that only takes FOUR lanes in the last slot for a total of 12 lanes. and them 4 lanes are just thrown in the trash?
 
I have 2 empty pcie slots, 1 empty msata slot AND 1 empty minipcie slot left.. That is 4 EMPTY unused slots and I am STILL Maxed out. 
 
I have to ask evga.. WHY ARE THEY THERE??

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Zuhl3156
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Re: 970 FTW + will not run past 8x 2016/02/03 19:21:26 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby NickNasc 2016/02/04 06:52:41
The Classified Z97 motherboard uses something called a 'PLX' chip to split the PCI-E lanes to give you 'Virtual' PCI-E lanes. It splits the original 16 lanes to simulate additional PCI-E lanes as illustrated here, same concept but different chipset: http://www.anandtech.com/show/6170/four-multigpu-z77-boards-from-280350-plx-pex-8747-featuring-gigabyte-asrock-ecs-and-evga
 
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NickNasc
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Re: 970 FTW + will not run past 8x 2016/02/03 19:36:13 (permalink)
so are you saying that my new card will still run as well on 8 as it did on 16?    Also I have 4 actual lanes to spare since my pcie adapter for the m.2 only uses 4 lanes. 

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Sajin
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Re: 970 FTW + will not run past 8x 2016/02/03 20:43:42 (permalink) ☼ Best Answerby NickNasc 2016/02/04 07:15:02
Try running the card in slot #2 with the m.2 in slot #6. 
 

 
Red = GPU.
Green = M.2 SSD.
 
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Zuhl3156
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Re: 970 FTW + will not run past 8x 2016/02/04 03:08:37 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby NickNasc 2016/02/04 06:52:28
NickNasc
so are you saying that my new card will still run as well on 8 as it did on 16?    Also I have 4 actual lanes to spare since my pcie adapter for the m.2 only uses 4 lanes. 


To answer your question about PCI-E lane speed the performance difference is very slight. You won't be able to notice the difference.
post edited by Zuhl3156 - 2016/02/04 03:11:25
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Cool GTX
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Re: 970 FTW + will not run past 8x 2016/02/04 04:39:50 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby NickNasc 2016/02/04 06:52:21
Zuhl3156
NickNasc
so are you saying that my new card will still run as well on 8 as it did on 16?    Also I have 4 actual lanes to spare since my pcie adapter for the m.2 only uses 4 lanes. 


To answer your question about PCI-E lane speed the performance difference is very slight. You won't be able to notice the difference.


Current GPUs can not saturate PCIe 8X
 
Might be able to measure it with benchmark software, but your not going to see it in real applications or games

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Re: 970 FTW + will not run past 8x 2016/02/04 04:46:50 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby NickNasc 2016/02/04 06:53:51
Might want to take a second cup of coffee and relax.    All is not lost.
 
The Manual stated the limits of the PCIe lanes on your MB -- page 9 (PCIe population rules)
 
http://www.evga.com/support/manuals/files/152-HR-E979-Part1.pdf
 
PCI-E Slot Breakdown
 
PCI-E Lane Distribution


PE1 – x16 (x8 if PE2 is used)

PE2 – x16 (x8 if PE3 is used)

PE3 – x8

PE4 – x16 (x8 if PE6 is used)

PE5 – x1

PE6 – x8

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arestavo
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Re: 970 FTW + will not run past 8x 2016/02/04 05:46:22 (permalink)
It looks like the best socket 1150 CPU has 16 PCIE lanes available, and your board may have a chip that gives you some more PCIE lanes (but tend thise to be not as good as the on board CPU PCIE lanes).

Just 1 PCIE device installed? 16X speed GPU.

2 PCIE devices? GPU goes to 8X and the other device gets the other 8X.

As for PCIE speeds, 4X, 8X, and 16X are what is available. There are no other divisions, so if you install 4 devices they would all run at 4X assuming you only have 16 PCIE lanes total - and Nvidia GPUs don't work in 4X mode for SLI fyi.

Edit: here is a good thread -http://forums.evga.com/m/tm.aspx?m=2312016&p=1
post edited by arestavo - 2016/02/04 05:50:38
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BrandonS
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Re: 970 FTW + will not run past 8x 2016/02/04 06:32:45 (permalink)
 
As several people in here have mentioned, it really won't make a major difference in your speeds. Using PCIe 3.0, most cards will only lose 1-2 FPS by using an x8 slot compared to an x16.
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Re: 970 FTW + will not run past 8x 2016/02/04 07:20:43 (permalink)
Thanks everyone!  I was looking at having to buy a new set-up I thought.  I was hoping to hold off the new build for Pascal etc.  : ))   I am going to try disconnecting the 850 pro and running the test again.  Even Samsung can't figure out why the 850 pro and the 950 pros speeds are reversed.  It looks crazy to see the 850 at 6700 write LOL 

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DeathAngel74
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Re: 970 FTW + will not run past 8x 2016/02/04 08:25:46 (permalink)
It has to do with the 4790k only supporting 16 lanes.
970 ftw+ = 3.0 x16 (total of 16)
970 ftw+ and m2 ssd = 3.0 x8 for GPU and pcie x8 for m2 ssd (same if you're using 2-way SLI, without the m2 ssd) (total of 16)
970 ftw+ /2way SLI = First slot 3.0 =8, second slot 3.0 x8(total of 16)
post edited by DeathAngel74 - 2016/02/04 17:58:11

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Re: 970 FTW + will not run past 8x 2016/02/04 10:53:03 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby NickNasc 2016/02/05 15:28:16
Running the card in slot #2 with the m.2 ssd in slot #6 should make the card run at x16 due to the plx chip being active on slot #2. 
 
Notes: slots #2 & #4 are run off the plx chip. 
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Re: 970 FTW + will not run past 8x 2016/02/04 15:25:08 (permalink)
And this is why I buy the E versions of CPUs and their motherboards.  I like having my 40 PCIe lanes.  I have 2 970 FTW+s running both running in 16x mode and also a sound card installed.  But I also know like others have said in the thread, there really isn't that much of performance difference.  But I like knowing that nothing is being bottlenecked by how many PCIe lanes I have.


 
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Re: 970 FTW + will not run past 8x 2016/02/04 15:48:26 (permalink)
NickNasc
Thanks everyone!  I was looking at having to buy a new set-up I thought.  I was hoping to hold off the new build for Pascal etc.  : ))   I am going to try disconnecting the 850 pro and running the test again.  Even Samsung can't figure out why the 850 pro and the 950 pros speeds are reversed.  It looks crazy to see the 850 at 6700 write LOL 




Couple things to remember, in general the P/Z series chipsets will have CPU with less lanes, typically 16, part of the reason why they in general cost less than their X counterparts.
If they state 3x or 4x SLI that means that a PLX chip is in use, which is a lane replicator.  It takes 8 lanes from the primary slot, replicates them, and provides 32 lanes to fuel the other slots.  This allows for some very high performing hardware combinations, on a platform with far less expensive processors.
 
DeathAngel74
It has to do with the 4790k only supporting 16 lanes.
970 ftw+ = 3.0 x16 (total of 16)
970 ftw+ and m2 ssd = 3.0 x8 for GPU and pcie x8 for m2 ssd (same if you're using 2-way SLI, without the m2 ssd) (total of 16)
970 ftw+ /3way SLI = First slot 3.0 =8, second slot 3.0 x4, third slot 3.0 x4 (total of 16)


That is actually not completely accurate, yes the CPUs have 16 lanes, but you cannot run 3x SLI in an x8/x4/x4 setup.  NVidia cards require x8 (there are some caveats for headless non SLI functions, but this is a general statement), now I am not an expert on AMD cards, but if memory serves you can run them on x4.
 
 
One nice thing about Z170, and I hope all chipsets to follow, the PCH is Gen3, so you can run M.2/PCIE/NVME drives at full speed without borrowing from the CPUs pool of PCIE lanes.
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DeathAngel74
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Re: 970 FTW + will not run past 8x 2016/02/04 17:56:00 (permalink)
Sorry, I think you are right. Lack of sleep, lol. I think it was AMD that could run @ x8/x4/x4.

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Re: 970 FTW + will not run past 8x 2016/02/04 18:00:24 (permalink)
NickNasc
Thanks everyone!  I was looking at having to buy a new set-up I thought.  I was hoping to hold off the new build for Pascal etc.  : ))   I am going to try disconnecting the 850 pro and running the test again.  Even Samsung can't figure out why the 850 pro and the 950 pros speeds are reversed.  It looks crazy to see the 850 at 6700 write LOL 


Sounds like you have RAPID mode enabled for your 850 Pro, that would explain the speed you are seeing.

RAPID is just a gimmick technology though, as the drive itself is really only capable of 550/520 MB/s read/write.
post edited by SuperConker - 2016/02/04 18:16:49


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NickNasc
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Re: 970 FTW + will not run past 8x 2016/02/05 15:16:10 (permalink)
SuperConker
NickNasc
Thanks everyone!  I was looking at having to buy a new set-up I thought.  I was hoping to hold off the new build for Pascal etc.  : ))   I am going to try disconnecting the 850 pro and running the test again.  Even Samsung can't figure out why the 850 pro and the 950 pros speeds are reversed.  It looks crazy to see the 850 at 6700 write LOL 


Sounds like you have RAPID mode enabled for your 850 Pro, that would explain the speed you are seeing.

RAPID is just a gimmick technology though, as the drive itself is really only capable of 550/520 MB/s read/write.



Yes you are right.  But still getting the slow numbers for the 950 pro and it shows I am in a proper x4 configuration : (
 
CrystalDiskMark 5.1.2 x64 (C) 2007-2016 hiyohiyo
                           Crystal Dew World : http://crystalmark.info/
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
* MB/s = 1,000,000 bytes/s [SATA/600 = 600,000,000 bytes/s]
* KB = 1000 bytes, KiB = 1024 bytes

   Sequential Read (Q= 32,T= 1) :   830.217 MB/s
  Sequential Write (Q= 32,T= 1) :   701.645 MB/s
  Random Read 4KiB (Q= 32,T= 1) :   726.326 MB/s [177325.7 IOPS]
 Random Write 4KiB (Q= 32,T= 1) :   142.097 MB/s [ 34691.7 IOPS]
         Sequential Read (T= 1) :   804.572 MB/s
        Sequential Write (T= 1) :   796.841 MB/s
   Random Read 4KiB (Q= 1,T= 1) :    56.435 MB/s [ 13778.1 IOPS]
  Random Write 4KiB (Q= 1,T= 1) :   171.109 MB/s [ 41774.7 IOPS]

  Test : 1024 MiB [C: 54.5% (259.9/476.9 GiB)] (x1)  [Interval=5 sec]
  Date : 2016/02/05 7:57:15
    OS : Windows 10 Professional [10.0 Build 10586] (x64)
 

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