Hey folks... May I add...
 
What happens is folks want to be a part of a team, we thrive in it, a fair or equal chance to win AND achieve a goal or goals.
 
Honestly there is not much more to it than that. When you mix all that into one contest it magnifies the effort, thinking, re-thinking and so on that it would take to get it right.
 
As I have and many others have said, give them a chance. They are communicating and looking at endless opinions (Including ours here)  to get it right. That does not mean they will But every time we do one of these contests we learn more and more about how to get better at them correct?
 
So let's give them all the room they need...
 
And lastly... Even though it is impossible to see in text, and even though I through up my hands earlier in this very thread I still kept the big picture in sight. Just like all of you are doing. So what if one team wins this round. Another team will win the next.
 
I personally do not see anything wrong with any of the communication at this point. What I see is differences of opinions and every single person wanting to have fun, fight for the cause and have an equal opportunity to win. Yet we all have a different way to say it is all.

I will speak as a person from outside, let's see how it goes.
 
First, I understand why Shykal is upset. Being picked on is not a good feeling, while there are a ton of other examples around.
Madrias, I have no negative feelings about you but you have to be a bit more fair. You picked on someone from Shykal's team to make an example of, while the top 6 folders in your team are overproducing with a much larger rate (percentage). So, Madrias, you gotta admit, it was a terrible choice of an example that you gave, even if you did not intend to offend anyone (which I believe was the case).
 
Other than that, I don't know if anybody expected to see the projected points being realized as they are. Just as Madrias said above, there are just so many factors in play and it is just normal to see deviations up or down, and sometimes at significant rates.
 
Now then, how is it that anyone can decide that someone has been manipulating the system? You cannot. If you (nobody in particular) go out for a witch hunt, all you'll do is piss your teammates, crap in the competition and make the organizers feel pity for all the time they've been putting in this.
 
So, I suggest, stop trying to find who did what, and just enjoy the competition by putting out your best folding power. Don't forget the ultimate purpose in folding and in this competition in particular.
 
The rules can always be tweaked but I'd suggest don't play with them much while the competition is going on. Try to improve it for the next time instead.
 
Just my 2 cents...
 

The main thing is we are outpacing [H]...good to know we can beat them  when we put effort in

Madrias

theGryphon

I will speak as a person from outside, let's see how it goes.

First, I understand why Shykal is upset. Being picked on is not a good feeling, while there are a ton of other examples around.
Madrias, I have no negative feelings about you but you have to be a bit more fair. You picked on someone from Shykal's team to make an example of, while the top 6 folders in your team are overproducing with a much larger rate (percentage). So, Madrias, you gotta admit, it was a terrible choice of an example that you gave, even if you did not intend to offend anyone (which I believe was the case).

Other than that, I don't know if anybody expected to see the projected points being realized as they are. Just as Madrias said above, there are just so many factors in play and it is just normal to see deviations up or down, and sometimes at significant rates.

Now then, how is it that anyone can decide that someone has been manipulating the system? You cannot. If you (nobody in particular) go out for a witch hunt, all you'll do is piss your teammates, crap in the competition and make the organizers feel pity for all the time they've been putting in this.

So, I suggest, stop trying to find who did what, and just enjoy the competition by putting out your best folding power. Don't forget the ultimate purpose in folding and in this competition in particular.

The rules can always be tweaked but I'd suggest don't play with them much while the competition is going on. Try to improve it for the next time instead.

Just my 2 cents...

I wasn't looking at percentage, I was looking at numbers.  Technically, my percentage is probably higher than the top 6 in my damn team.  However, 50 cPPD doesn't seem as scary to make a point with.

 
Madrias, if you want to calculate the points, you'll see that the top three folders in your team exceeds werty in terms of overproduction. If you insist it was a good idea, I have nothing else to say. I have nothing in this competition and my post was meant to be constructive. Feel free to receive it as you wish...
 
 

theGryphon

Madrias

theGryphon

I will speak as a person from outside, let's see how it goes.

First, I understand why Shykal is upset. Being picked on is not a good feeling, while there are a ton of other examples around.
Madrias, I have no negative feelings about you but you have to be a bit more fair. You picked on someone from Shykal's team to make an example of, while the top 6 folders in your team are overproducing with a much larger rate (percentage). So, Madrias, you gotta admit, it was a terrible choice of an example that you gave, even if you did not intend to offend anyone (which I believe was the case).

Other than that, I don't know if anybody expected to see the projected points being realized as they are. Just as Madrias said above, there are just so many factors in play and it is just normal to see deviations up or down, and sometimes at significant rates.

Now then, how is it that anyone can decide that someone has been manipulating the system? You cannot. If you (nobody in particular) go out for a witch hunt, all you'll do is piss your teammates, crap in the competition and make the organizers feel pity for all the time they've been putting in this.

So, I suggest, stop trying to find who did what, and just enjoy the competition by putting out your best folding power. Don't forget the ultimate purpose in folding and in this competition in particular.

The rules can always be tweaked but I'd suggest don't play with them much while the competition is going on. Try to improve it for the next time instead.

Just my 2 cents...

I wasn't looking at percentage, I was looking at numbers.  Technically, my percentage is probably higher than the top 6 in my damn team.  However, 50 cPPD doesn't seem as scary to make a point with.

Madrias, if you want to calculate the points, you'll see that the top three folders in your team exceeds werty in terms of overproduction. If you insist it was a good idea, I have nothing else to say. I have nothing in this competition and my post was meant to be constructive. Feel free to receive it as you wish...

 
As I said, I wasn't looking to do the calculations, I was looking at numbers.  Yes, I know the top 3 in my team exceed Werty in overproduction.  Here's a newsflash for you: So do I.  However, my 50 contest points can't change the team as quickly as his, and even at that, I didn't pick Werty for any reason other than numbers.   If Drougnor or Rjbelans or Troy8d had the highest numbers, I would have posted their numbers instead.  The fact that I left out his name indicates that I wasn't implicating him.
 

Xavier Zepherious

The main thing is we are outpacing [H]...good to know we can beat them  when we put effort in

 
The most important thing right now.
 

werty316

Put on your big boy pants and suck it up cup cake.

 
Hello, Werty, glad to see you could meet me with a personal attack.
 
 
________
 
Now, to cover what I said, and why I said it, because no one seems to get it right now:
 
I picked Werty's numbers because he's got the highest point count and highest numerical overage.  Not the highest percentage, not the highest member from the highest team, but because of numbers.
 
As I said, if anyone else had the high numbers, I'd have made the same post in the same way.
 
Yes, I know that my team has people with higher percentages of overage, yes, I know my overage is higher than Werty's, yes, our team is currently in the lead, but guess what:
 
I'm willing to bet that you could ask 10 random people "are you having fun?" and get the same answer: yes.
 
Call me whatever you want.  I put up with name calling, bullying, being picked on, and all sorts of other crap for 12 years.  You think I can't handle it, you're wrong.  You think what you say to me, trying to demean my statements, to rile me up, is going to make a difference in my opinion, you will find yourself sorely wrong.  Why?  Because if there's one thing I learned to stand up for in my whole damn life, it's that you stand up for yourself and your opinions.

Group hug!!!

I sent out one of the many ideas I have tonight to a few members... Not for this contest but another we could have...
 
Keep in mind we could have a sick goal 800/35 million... So max production would be the goal...
 
There is no reason a contest cannot be fun for "Closest to the Target" and having fun with a penalty box could be a riot... So that is my thoughts on that...
 
The reason for this way is simple... All about the "Timed" drag race or what I like to do with my old Jeeps or Motorcycles (Like old school poker runs)... Have a times (Actual time... like 2 hours 15 minutes) run, closets to fuel mileage and overall avg speed wins... In other words... Closest to the pin wins... We  would measure time, Miles per hour avg and fuel usage. The best at all three (Closets to the predetermined goal) wins. (But in our world terms not cars)
 
It should NOT matter if an individual goes over it should be based off the team score. As a team they should work together to help project/protect and produce to as close to the 1132.9 (Or what ever the number is) as they got aligned to do with the players they have.
 
However! Since the idea is to have teams be as competitive as possible... Going over is baaaaad. It should not be about who learns how far the % can be pushed. It should be about getting as close to the projection as possible. (This coming from a 200%+ over producer mind you!!)
 
Also... 93% or better of all participants must produce 85% of their offered predicted number. If a team only has 87% producing within 85% to 100% of their predicted times, they are penalized points. Now they can make up those points, but at half the normal rate.
 
Alright enough of that. Now we are getting to deep into loop hole closing...
 
On another note... Folks can "Claim" they are all about a team. But clearly many are deliberately overproducing in a controlled manner because they want to win. This is good for those teams that have players prepared enough to do that. NOT so good for those not.
 
Also, it is very counter productive to run a contest wanting to do 700 but limit the production points to do that while at the same time trying to make the teams "Equal"...
 
In other words... The competitiveness of this will always come out. As long as there is a measurement of "Adding" points and highest point wins, this will happen.
 
Now just imagine if we could use that same energy to get as close as possible to a target/goal like I mentioned above. Closest to their teams predicted production wins! We could say we want to get 800 million and 35 million. Then instruct them to run as if they are competing because we are using it as the baseline for the contest. Making sure it is perfectly clear that any overages are BAD as BAD as under-producing. This way they are accurate with TRUER production predictions. Then run a week as they learn the system as one entire team (All participants are one team at this point). Then brake them off into equal teams... Run for two weeks... And walla... Closest to the target wins...
 
Last comment. If I knew as a participant that I would be overproducing by 200% (As my one SMP is doing nicely once every 18-19 hours) I would have adjusted my Prediction given the chance to 19k ppd. For example... Instead of the teams already being chosen... We could have used this week as two teams while showing our true ability (Call it the Qualifying round ), doing all this communication. And then after words when the penalties are finalized, and the predictions are solid, and all the production predictions have been adjusted... THEN spread the players out to the teams and have a contest.

I didn't call anybody any names, I had no intention doing so, or any other negative meaning that you can possibly infer from my posts. Believe it or not, I had all the best intentions and objectivity in mind while posting. Competitiveness has taken its toll here it seems and I don't see how I could possibly convince any of you who got offended my posts while you're in this kind of mood. So, I'm not going to try and convince anybody. I'm in a very good mood right now and I cannot spoil it over petty discussions.
 
Sadly, I have to say, I'm very happy I'm not in this competition. I'm just folding happily and I could care less about competing with anybody or any team... I don't think I'll ever be in any kind of competition again. It's just not worth all the stress and negative feelings. All the discussions revolving around CC and now this, it was an easy decision for me.
 

I am not sure how this got sour so fast... No one needs to leave or change. Nothing has been decided yet. We need to give them the opportunity to present their ideas and such. Till then I say we work with our teams and achieve those goals each team has...
 
Or go all hands on deck and say "Poo to the man! I am going all out"... Your choice

Afterburner
Keep in mind we could have a sick goal 800/35 million... So max production would be the goal...

There is no reason a contest cannot be fun for "Closest to the Target" and having fun with a penalty box could be a riot... So that is my thoughts on that...

The reason for this way is simple... All about the "Timed" drag race or what I like to do with my old Jeeps or Motorcycles (Like old school poker runs)... Have a times (Actual time... like 2 hours 15 minutes) run, closets to fuel mileage and overall avg speed wins... In other words... Closest to the pin wins... We  would measure time, Miles per hour avg and fuel usage. The best at all three (Closets to the predetermined goal) wins. (But in our world terms not cars)

It should NOT matter if an individual goes over it should be based off the team score. As a team they should work together to help project/protect and produce to as close to the 1132.9 (Or what ever the number is) as they got aligned to do with the players they have.

However! Since the idea is to have teams be as competitive as possible... Going over is baaaaad. It should not be about who learns how far the % can be pushed. It should be about getting as close to the projection as possible. (This coming from a 200%+ over producer mind you!!)

 
I like all of these ideas...  A max production goal, let's just see as a team if we all go 'flat out' how far we can press...
 
Also, a Time/Speed/Distance Rally (to the pin) approach is an excellent idea, do it in small breakout groups then widdle it down in various directions...

Afterburner
Also... 93% or better of all participants must produce 85% of their offered predicted number. If a team only has 87% producing within 85% to 100% of their predicted times, they are penalized points. Now they can make up those points, but at half the normal rate.

Alright enough of that. Now we are getting to deep into loop hole closing...

On another note... Folks can "Claim" they are all about a team. But clearly many are deliberately overproducing in a controlled manner because they want to win. This is good for those teams that have players prepared enough to do that. NOT so good for those not.

Also, it is very counter productive to run a contest wanting to do 700 but limit the production points to do that while at the same time trying to make the teams "Equal"...

In other words... The competitiveness of this will always come out. As long as there is a measurement of "Adding" points and highest point wins, this will happen.

Now just imagine if we could use that same energy to get as close as possible to a target/goal like I mentioned above. Closest to their teams predicted production wins! We could say we want to get 800 million and 35 million. Then instruct them to run as if they are competing because we are using it as the baseline for the contest. Making sure it is perfectly clear that any overages are BAD as BAD as under-producing. This way they are accurate with TRUER production predictions. Then run a week as they learn the system as one entire team (All participants are one team at this point). Then brake them off into equal teams... Run for two weeks... And walla... Closest to the target wins...

 
Yep, in an environment where competition is obviously king, the trick is to figure out how to best focus this and keep it productive; this is a good example actually on how to handle that.

Afterburner

I am not sure how this got sour so fast... No one needs to leave or change. Nothing has been decided yet. We need to give them the opportunity to present their ideas and such. Till then I say we work with our teams and achieve those goals each team has...

Or go all hands on deck and say "Poo to the man! I am going all out"... Your choice

Again, my thoughts exactly...  It's a bummer things are going south (competition, egos, and arithmetic), so maybe just let it all go...  Let's all just go full bore and draw at random for prizes afterward, whatever, I just want to see what we can do... 

You had to use someone's score as an example and if I didn't have the score I have now then someone else's score would have been mentioned as an example. I understand and took no offense.

wow.. all this bickering back and forth makes me think of not entering any more contest's and stop folding for EVGA
it seems to me to many ppl are folding for the rewards and not for the greater good
why do ppl have to add more system just for a contest.. fold full time with what you have forget about the contest and remember all the ppl you may help in the future... wayyy to much BS going on

the reason people add another system to the contest is to try and beat last years record.in a nut shell,the whole idea of the contest is to get more people involved and to fold more points than  in previous contests.heck if my router would not have died i would try folding on my netbook also.fold what you have guys and enjoy.

you will do it madrias,get,r,done