Think of it this way, AB - if you completely stopped folding now, in about 5-6 days or so you will have all of those 114 points.

patchesanook

i got a stupid question,
why do i have to  say what my points or ppd a day is.
i fold,but i do not check every wu or points every day.
so when i join a contest i have to guess,.
when i fold i do not check my stats everyday or update.i just check to make sure my system is working.

you know,
when i am in a contest i just turn on folding.i check it every 12 hours or so.i   go fishing or riding my harley.
i do not sit at my desk and try and compute my folding points.
i estimate my production for a contest by my last 24 hour output.
if they sneak a new wu in im screwed.
but win ,lose , or draw, i am here for my team.

because human nature requires us as humans to try and win. its just the way we are wired. people will claw their way to a win for all kinds of reasons. so maybe one guy wants to be in the contest to say his team was #1. another persons goal was to get more overall points for the project. none of this matters. all that matters is that people have all the information available so that they can decide for themselves if whatever effort they put in is worth it for them.

Afterburner

Now where is all this math  magic laid out? I looked and looked... I cannot see where it tells us how it gives back points and how this is figured out.

And before I am once again tossed around for asking... Let me explain...

Part of the fun with this for me right now would be to figuring out what production I could do to be as helpful as possible on the 700 million march

yep ab, I am in the same boat. I like the challenge of manipulating the system to get the most out of it. I think troy said in an earlier post that he was working on laying it out for us. He has obviously put a lot of work into trying to make it fun for us so, I am willing to give him slack....for a few more minutes:) (jk)

Afterburner

diplomacy

i agree that the whining is not good and would like to take the opportunity to remind everyone that the primary goal of this competition is to get us to 700M points. this is a friendly competition and as such, we should be cheering each other on.

the powers are doing their best to make the contest competitive. allowing 1 person to hold the contest hostage while everyone else who was accurate is punished for it is not a superior solution by my calculation.

Do what? Troy clearly said this was open to discussion How is a member who has made a choice to do as originally planned holding this hostage? I goofed, no one else. I just made clear of my choice.

I actually like the creativity of it all. By no means am I doing as you are suggesting. I am offering my personal thoughts. Majority rules as with anything else. This is fun! Let's keep that going...

 
the holding hostage would come if there were 8 relatively well balanced teams and one or two persons who happened to underestimate his ppd by 400%, lets say and then proceeded to amass a huge number of points which is fine for EVGA, but does undermine the contest element. a little error is to be expected and will be allowed. the point reductions will effect strongly a very small number who are upsetting the competitiveness of the teams and furthermore will never be harmful or function as a hard cap on production. merely an overall balancing tool(and a really slight one at that).
 
i'm not specifically talking about you or your points, but if i were, i would point out that your points arent gone and that as the contest progresses, regardless of what you choose to do, they will have an effect on your team's overall standing. i encourage you to participate and give it your all, because giving it any less will make the contest feel less fun.
 
something to remember, the longer the contest runs, the less effect this filter will have.

diplomacy

Afterburner

diplomacy

i agree that the whining is not good and would like to take the opportunity to remind everyone that the primary goal of this competition is to get us to 700M points. this is a friendly competition and as such, we should be cheering each other on.

the powers are doing their best to make the contest competitive. allowing 1 person to hold the contest hostage while everyone else who was accurate is punished for it is not a superior solution by my calculation.

Do what? Troy clearly said this was open to discussion How is a member who has made a choice to do as originally planned holding this hostage? I goofed, no one else. I just made clear of my choice.

I actually like the creativity of it all. By no means am I doing as you are suggesting. I am offering my personal thoughts. Majority rules as with anything else. This is fun! Let's keep that going...

the holding hostage would come if there were 8 relatively well balanced teams and one or two persons who happened to underestimate his ppd by 400%, lets say and then proceeded to amass a huge number of points which is fine for EVGA, but does undermine the contest element. a little error is to be expected and will be allowed. the point reductions will effect strongly a very small number who are upsetting the competitiveness of the teams and furthermore will never be harmful or function as a hard cap on production. merely an overall balancing tool.

per your example
person says he can do 25k
person does 35k
person receives ~30k+ worth of points. its still ~5ppd extra for your team, its just not 10.

ok....so this is my point, which you all seem to be ignoring btw.
 
person says he will do 25k
person does 35k
person receives 30k worth of points.
 
now assume as is the case for me personally
if i do 25k it costs me $17.50usd
if i do 35k it cost me $24.50
but if i know the formula so i do only the 30k then I will get the same result for only 21 dollars. get it? i just saved enough money to buy myself a coffee while im fishing with my harley.

The current point system is based on the following

• 1 contest point for every 1000 folding points
• 1 contest point for every WU completed

Contest points are then tallied for each contestant.  All contestant that are producing above their reported points are then placed into what I affectionately call the "sandbagger index" and a weighted average of their overproduction is determined.  This weighted average then becomes the threshold beyond which you may not receive full contest points for your folding production.  This calculation is made continuously every update and considers your total production for the entire contest period.  You do not have to worry about dropping too many points in a single update or a single day.

• All contest points that fall below 1.1 x SBI (regardless of whether a portion of that folders points exceed the SBI) receive full credit.

• If your team in aggregate is below their projected points, full points will be awarded.  That is, you are allowed to make up for lost team production from underproducing team members.

• Only contest points that exceed 1.1 x SBI are not awarded full credit for that particular folder.
• This is constantly updated from day 1 of the contest, so when you produce the points is irrelevant.

• There is an inherent ability to modify the point at which the SBI threshold kicks in, as well the rate at which full credit is no longer rewarded.  The current set up probably is not perfect, and certainly can be adjusted as necessary

So what is really important here is how you compare to everyone else in the contest.  Essentially, if you are within 10% of what everyone else is overproducing on average - you don't have to worry.

I put a lot of thought into the design of this system, but there is always room for improvement.  Please let me know of anything you think might improve it - or if it is better to eliminate it altogether.  The aim of this system is to strike a balance between incentivizing people to fold as much as possible and preventing misrepresentation of folding potential from allowing a fair and competitive contest.
 
 

what, lol ab your losing it man, that quote isnt from me:)

Gratuitous

diplomacy

Afterburner

diplomacy

i agree that the whining is not good and would like to take the opportunity to remind everyone that the primary goal of this competition is to get us to 700M points. this is a friendly competition and as such, we should be cheering each other on.

the powers are doing their best to make the contest competitive. allowing 1 person to hold the contest hostage while everyone else who was accurate is punished for it is not a superior solution by my calculation.

Do what? Troy clearly said this was open to discussion How is a member who has made a choice to do as originally planned holding this hostage? I goofed, no one else. I just made clear of my choice.

I actually like the creativity of it all. By no means am I doing as you are suggesting. I am offering my personal thoughts. Majority rules as with anything else. This is fun! Let's keep that going...

the holding hostage would come if there were 8 relatively well balanced teams and one or two persons who happened to underestimate his ppd by 400%, lets say and then proceeded to amass a huge number of points which is fine for EVGA, but does undermine the contest element. a little error is to be expected and will be allowed. the point reductions will effect strongly a very small number who are upsetting the competitiveness of the teams and furthermore will never be harmful or function as a hard cap on production. merely an overall balancing tool.

per your example
person says he can do 25k
person does 35k
person receives ~30k+ worth of points. its still ~5ppd extra for your team, its just not 10.

ok....so this is my point, which you all seem to be ignoring btw.

person says he will do 25k
person does 35k
person receives 30k worth of points.

now assume as is the case for me personally
if i do 25k it costs me $17.50usd
if i do 35k it cost me $24.50
but if i know the formula so i do only the 30k then I will get the same result for only 21 dollars. get it? i just saved enough money to buy myself a coffee while im fishing with my harley.

 
i don't have any numbers for you, i was wrong to post them. there has been a lot of misinfo already, please see my edited comment.
 
per the concept of the post, however... assuming that someone were able to precisely predict contest ppd which remember is not simply a matter of points*1/1000, and wished to calculate points per kwh, based on the exact power draw of the rig over time, i would say that they need to remember that all of these points are for science and for the panda group and the greater good. so that person should, in my mind, contribute at a level that he feels comfortable with and simply forget the rest. win, lose or draw.

Gratuitous
ok....so this is my point, which you all seem to be ignoring btw.

person says he will do 25k
person does 35k
person receives 30k worth of points.

now assume as is the case for me personally
if i do 25k it costs me $17.50usd
if i do 35k it cost me $24.50
but if i know the formula so i do only the 30k then I will get the same result for only 21 dollars. get it? i just saved enough money to buy myself a coffee while im fishing with my harley.

Based on your personal standpoint and stated priorities, I would say your most cost-effective solution would be to produce at about 110% (10% over) of your predicted PPD. Then you would always get full value for the points produced. One thing this suggestion does not take into account, and you would have to figure that out yourself, is how much that extra 10% would cost you per point.

Afterburner

Gratuitous


the holding hostage would come if there were 8 relatively well balanced teams and one or two persons who happened to underestimate his ppd by 400%, lets say and then proceeded to amass a huge number of points which is fine for EVGA, but does undermine the contest element. a little error is to be expected and will be allowed. the point reductions will effect strongly a very small number who are upsetting the competitiveness of the teams and furthermore will never be harmful or function as a hard cap on production. merely an overall balancing tool.

per your example
person says he can do 25k
person does 35k
person receives ~30k+ worth of points. its still ~5ppd extra for your team, its just not 10.

Holding hostage is to harsh.

50% is totally bogus. If that was true I would not have nearly the same points as a team member has with 28k in folding production with 38.5 points.

I already explained my position earlier...

 
please note my revised post on the matter, also note that the number of WUs produced are either as important or more important than total ppd in the calculations.
also note that i was never intending to imply that it was a straight penalty vs a curve. i don't have that info. what i do know is that the contest was optimized for the people who accurately predicted their ppd.
 
you'll also note that the huge delta in team production vs estimated production means there is probably plenty of room for you to get most, if not all of your points back if the others continue to not produce.

troy8d

The current point system is based on the following

• 1 contest point for every 1000 folding points
• 1 contest point for every WU completed

Contest points are then tallied for each contestant.  All contestant that are producing above their reported points are then placed into what I affectionately call the "sandbagger index" and a weighted average of their overproduction is determined.  This weighted average then becomes the threshold beyond which you may not receive full contest points for your folding production.  This calculation is made continuously every update and considers your total production for the entire contest period.  You do not have to worry about dropping too many points in a single update or a single day.

• All contest points that fall below 1.1 x SBI (regardless of whether a portion of that folders points exceed the SBI) receive full credit.

• If your team in aggregate is below their projected points, full points will be awarded.  That is, you are allowed to make up for lost team production from underproducing team members.

• Only contest points that exceed 1.1 x SBI are not awarded full credit for that particular folder.
• This is constantly updated from day 1 of the contest, so when you produce the points is irrelevant.

• There is an inherent ability to modify the point at which the SBI threshold kicks in, as well the rate at which full credit is no longer rewarded.  The current set up probably is not perfect, and certainly can be adjusted as necessary

So what is really important here is how you compare to everyone else in the contest.  Essentially, if you are within 10% of what everyone else is overproducing on average - you don't have to worry.

I put a lot of thought into the design of this system, but there is always room for improvement.  Please let me know of anything you think might improve it - or if it is better to eliminate it altogether.  The aim of this system is to strike a balance between incentivizing people to fold as much as possible and preventing misrepresentation of folding potential from allowing a fair and competitive contest.

thanks for the oportunity to re-read:)  so I never did finish college so help me out here a little.
SBI = weighted average of overproduction.
1.1 x SBI recieves full credit
and there is an inhearent ability to modify at any point.
 
first I dont know what the weight is and second I don't know if the inhearent ability to modify on the fly actually can fit in a formula, so leads me to believe that it is a arbetrary decision. which is fine by the way and knowing this gives me the answers I need. I trust you man. thanks again for taking the time to do this thing.
 

troy8d

Its weighted by reported production.  So someone that reports 12k PPD and overproduces by 10% is given less weight than someone that reports 200k PPD and overproduces by 10%

I'm not sure what you are asking for the second part.  Can you be more specific?

never mind man, the whole thing you wrote is good enough. dont need you thinking I am some bean counter or something:)
 
thanks for the contest.

diplomacy

Gratuitous

diplomacy

per the concept of the post, however... assuming that someone were able to precisely predict contest ppd which remember is not simply a matter of points*1/1000, and wished to calculate points per kwh, based on the exact power draw of the rig over time, i would say that they need to remember that all of these points are for science and for the panda group and the greater good. so that person should, in my mind, contribute at a level that he feels comfortable with and simply forget the rest. win, lose or draw.

fair enough, I can 'play within those perameters. look at it this way though. if I role on out to Vegas and place my bet on some football spread. I might be willing to double down if i thought I was close to achiving the goal. but I am commited to the original bet regardless.

i find it highly probable that anyone who can value their dollar cost per point per rig per hour, could also mathematically determine on the fly, how close their team was to moving up or down a spot using just the original formula and a rough weighted estimate. especially after you have a little more data to parse. just a guess though 0.o

 
touche,
 
I 'get' it. not trying to be a pain in the ass. carry on now. lets fold!!

Gratuitous

troy8d

Its weighted by reported production.  So someone that reports 12k PPD and overproduces by 10% is given less weight than someone that reports 200k PPD and overproduces by 10%

I'm not sure what you are asking for the second part.  Can you be more specific?

never mind man, the whole thing you wrote is good enough. dont need you thinking I am some bean counter or something:)

thanks for the contest.

 
You're certainly welcome to ask, and I'm not trying to hide it or anything like that...as long as you don't expect immediate answers as I am only one person.

diplomacy


please note my revised post on the matter, also note that the number of WUs produced are either as important or more important than total ppd in the calculations.
also note that i was never intending to imply that it was a straight penalty vs a curve. i don't have that info. what i do know is that the contest was optimized for the people who accurately predicted their ppd.

you'll also note that the huge delta in team production vs estimated production means there is probably plenty of room for you to get most, if not all of your points back if the others continue to not produce.

Noted...
 
As for the highlighted portion... It seems it does not matter what my teammates are doing. (Speaking only about my production here) My points are mine. No amount of production from any other producer effects my own. Not sure where you might think otherwise.
 
Thanks for the input!