Re:2012 Offical Folding M@dness Announcements
2012/03/04 15:11:39
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beamer368
ok Question the Projected for me is 41.0 is that what does that mean? and is that what my goal per a day that I need to make?
sry noob question's
I think its your projected points , now look over to contest ppd that is what you are doing.So in a nut shell yes thats what you should at least be doing.
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Madrias
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Re:2012 Offical Folding M@dness Announcements
2012/03/04 15:33:51
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I've spotted a bit of a points discrepancy. Did someone sneak the system into place to see if we wouldn't notice?
You wished for peace from me. Now you have war. Am I against the anti-sandbagging system? Not entirely, but when it appears to be linearly scaled at this point, it hurts. It hurts because at this point, I'm getting docked points because I'm over because I decided to 24-7 one rig for 3 days straight. A strategy I never normally do.
Yet someone (who I will leave unnamed) can run an aggressively high number of predicted points and is well over (by the standards of even the heavy hitters) his predicted PPD, is making full points.
At this point, I'm calling this points balance trick a massive steaming pile of fartpaste.
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Re:2012 Offical Folding M@dness Announcements
2012/03/04 15:58:44
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Mad, if you want to keep names out of the public space, PM troy so he can check up/fully explain circumstances. Remember - Those teams who are missing people to the point that their overproducers are just bringing the team to balance won't be penalized, but those who are, as a team, out producing their predicted numbers ARE being penalized.
Without the information to research, I can only make suggestions as to what MIGHT be the cause.
d
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Re:2012 Offical Folding M@dness Announcements
2012/03/04 16:08:57
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drougnor
Mad, if you want to keep names out of the public space, PM troy so he can check up/fully explain circumstances. Remember - Those teams who are missing people to the point that their overproducers are just bringing the team to balance won't be penalized, but those who are, as a team, out producing their predicted numbers ARE being penalized.
Without the information to research, I can only make suggestions as to what MIGHT be the cause.
d
Just tossing this out there... They may be testing n the background. Because It would be silly for them to blatantly be doing what I see and have for the last 24+ hours... Please see attached... This is as of 4:01 PM pacific 03/04/2012... Notice we still have one producer not producing... Take note... AzN has "Predicted" 27 per day. And is averaging 37.8 AB predicted 12 and is averaging 19.6 AzN is 10.8 OVER producing yet has 119k and 113.5 points. AB is over 7.6 OVER producing and has 150k and 58.9 points. Hmmmm Interesting... I am over producing LESS and being penalized by almost Double! Or is it the extra 31k that penalized me 54.6 points? There for I can only conclude testing is happening in the background and that this is still only partially implemented. As they have announced testing and voting. I bet this is the case... There is no way they would run the contest like this. We just need to give them a chance to get it all agreed on and implemented across the board...
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staypuft
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Re:2012 Offical Folding M@dness Announcements
2012/03/04 18:02:16
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Afterburner
AzN has "Predicted" 27 per day. And is averaging 37.8
AB predicted 12 and is averaging 19.6
AzN is 10.8 OVER producing yet has 119k and 113.5 points.
AB is over 7.6 OVER producing and has 150k and 58.9 points.
I think it's because: 37.8/27 = 1.40 19.6/12 = 1.63 Your ratio is larger so the penalty is higher > relative to your own production. You are only getting credit for ~50% of your numbers... AZN is ~90%. He barely crossed the 'line', while you went a bit further. You must also take into account the total work units completed in your comparison above. EDIT: I get penalized to about 70%, it's different for everyone. The larger producers (estimators) can go over more in overall points before the penalty kicks in.
post edited by staypuft - 2012/03/04 18:13:26
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Re:2012 Offical Folding M@dness Announcements
2012/03/04 18:22:51
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staypuft
Afterburner
AzN has "Predicted" 27 per day. And is averaging 37.8
AB predicted 12 and is averaging 19.6
AzN is 10.8 OVER producing yet has 119k and 113.5 points.
AB is over 7.6 OVER producing and has 150k and 58.9 points.
I think it's because:
37.8/27 = 1.40
19.6/12 = 1.63
Your ratio is larger so the penalty is higher > relative to your own production. You are only getting credit for ~50% of your numbers... AZN is ~90%. He barely crossed the 'line', while you went a bit further. You must also take into account the total work units completed in your comparison above. EDIT: I get penalized to about 70%, it's different for everyone. The larger producers (estimators) can go over more in overall points before the penalty kicks in.
That makes sense... Pretty ingenious... That said... why would 23% more production cost 48% more in points... That is where I am coming from and why I think they are still tweaking it...
post edited by Afterburner - 2012/03/04 18:32:24
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staypuft
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Re:2012 Offical Folding M@dness Announcements
2012/03/04 18:41:38
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Yeah, the penalty seems pretty aggresive moving from 1.4 to 1.63...
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Re:2012 Offical Folding M@dness Announcements
2012/03/04 18:53:46
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lols sorry for crossing the line :P It was to make up for 5 people at the time since we were allowed to let it rip. Im returning to my averages now unless they are needed. But it does suck to see AB technically declining -_-
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Re:2012 Offical Folding M@dness Announcements
2012/03/04 18:57:42
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I just hope they get it figured out soon. I know personally that I am producing almost double somedays in points that I estimated. Which makes me feel bad. But I had no way of guessing how the upgrades were going to effect my rig. I wish now that I had just estimated higher instead of using my past stats to gauge production. Because I seem to be being penalized greatly :(
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Re:2012 Offical Folding M@dness Announcements
2012/03/04 19:00:34
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AzN-SoLjA
lols sorry for crossing the line :P It was to make up for 5 people at the time since we were allowed to let it rip. Im returning to my averages now unless they are needed. But it does suck to see AB technically declining -_-
Don't you dare be sorry!!! Your doing a great job... 
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Re:2012 Offical Folding M@dness Announcements
2012/03/04 19:01:35
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Xarzi
I just hope they get it figured out soon. I know personally that I am producing almost double somedays in points that I estimated. Which makes me feel bad. But I had no way of guessing how the upgrades were going to effect my rig. I wish now that I had just estimated higher instead of using my past stats to gauge production. Because I seem to be being penalized greatly :(
Bingo!
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Re:2012 Offical Folding M@dness Announcements
2012/03/04 19:01:54
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I suggest that all who can please continue to go all out. Note what Troy said in an earlier post, the threshold above which points are adjusted is a moving target based on the weighted average of all overproducers. So, if a lot of overproducers are producing 40..50..60% or more, then that is the standard to which you are held. I believe the threshold is currently somewhere around 30% or so overproduction, so all overproduction up to that approximately 30% is given full value. If the weighted average increases to 60%, then all overproduction up to 60% is given full value.
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Re:2012 Offical Folding M@dness Announcements
2012/03/04 19:05:44
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Afterburner
AzN-SoLjA
lols sorry for crossing the line :P It was to make up for 5 people at the time since we were allowed to let it rip. Im returning to my averages now unless they are needed. But it does suck to see AB technically declining -_-
Don't you dare be sorry!!! Your doing a great job...
Oh ok :D  But I guess I don't have much wiggle room to do a little more now lol
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Re:2012 Offical Folding M@dness Announcements
2012/03/04 19:18:44
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Given the examples above it looks like the penalties get very harsh after 41% over predicted production.
My guess is blocks of 10's... At some point there has to be a flushing point to potentially even a negative impact.
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Re:2012 Offical Folding M@dness Announcements
2012/03/04 19:20:14
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Well even with that. I don't think they have the standard set at 30% over production. I currently have 132k folding points. Which in there if this was a straight contest(I mean it has no equalizer) would equal 132 contest points. And 33 work units which would equal 33 contest points. So overall I would have 165 contest points. Even if I was only receiving 50 percent credit for my points I would be at 82.5 points. But alas I am cut more then fifty percent and I am only getting 50.5 points. Which mean I am being decrease by 70 percent or so. Now at this point if I had kept to 9.6 WU a day, I would have 28.8 Work units after 3 days. and 79500 points roughly. This would give me 28.8 points in work units. and 79 points from the amount of points I have earned. Which would equal to 107.8 contest points after 3 days. So how is it after 3 days I only have 50.5 contest points?
post edited by Xarzi - 2012/03/04 19:27:23
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Re:2012 Offical Folding M@dness Announcements
2012/03/04 19:25:13
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Xarzi
Well even with that. I don't think they have the standard set at 30% over production. I currently have 132k folding points. Which in there if this was a straight contest(I mean it has no equalizer) would equal 132 contest points. And 33 work units which would equal 33 contest points. So overall I would have 165 contest points. Even if I was only receiving 50 percent credit for my points I would be at 82.5 points. But alas I am cut more then fifty percent and I am only getting 50.5 points. Which mean I am being decrease by 70 percent or so.
hmmm.. Well that blows my thinking into NOT land... We will all know soon enough...
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Re:2012 Offical Folding M@dness Announcements
2012/03/04 19:29:15
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Xarzi, I think I see the problem. It looks like you made an error in your sign-up numbers and no-one caught it. You entered 23.247 PPD and 9.6 wu/day, which gives you the 9.6 estimate. It probably should have been 23247 PPD and 9.6 wu/day, which would have been 32.8 estimated. Since we are a couple of days into the contest and correcting this mistake would completely throw off the balancing that was done, I'm not sure what the best course of action is right now.
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Re:2012 Offical Folding M@dness Announcements
2012/03/04 19:34:18
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Shouldn't it be easy to correct their formulas? Since info was entered potentially wrong? Should a slice of pie? lols.
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Re:2012 Offical Folding M@dness Announcements
2012/03/04 19:34:24
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Well that blows I messaged troy (atleast twice I think) about the PPD mistake and he never responded to me. Though in truthfulness. I don't think it will hurt us at all if they fix it. We still have one dude who's not producing a single darn work unit at all. I also posted in this thread before the contest started trying to bring to light that I made a mistake.
post edited by Xarzi - 2012/03/04 19:43:20
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Re:2012 Offical Folding M@dness Announcements
2012/03/04 19:36:37
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AzN-SoLjA
Shouldn't it be easy to correct their formulas? Since info was entered potentially wrong? Should a slice of pie? lols.
*Warning.. Just grabbing numbers out of the air** The problem lies in the fact that now the teams are out of balance. Instead of one member on a team producing (Prediction wise) 23.400 they are now predicted to produce 23,400 and that is 23,376.6 more than any other team...
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troy8d
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Re:2012 Offical Folding M@dness Announcements
2012/03/04 22:23:40
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Madrias
I've spotted a bit of a points discrepancy. Did someone sneak the system into place to see if we wouldn't notice?
You wished for peace from me. Now you have war. Am I against the anti-sandbagging system? Not entirely, but when it appears to be linearly scaled at this point, it hurts. It hurts because at this point, I'm getting docked points because I'm over because I decided to 24-7 one rig for 3 days straight. A strategy I never normally do.
Yet someone (who I will leave unnamed) can run an aggressively high number of predicted points and is well over (by the standards of even the heavy hitters) his predicted PPD, is making full points.
At this point, I'm calling this points balance trick a massive steaming pile of fartpaste.
Unless you let us know who you are talking about this is irrelevant. I will assume that he is on a team that is behind and playing catch up.
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troy8d
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Re:2012 Offical Folding M@dness Announcements
2012/03/04 22:37:16
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Xarzi
Well that blows I messaged troy (atleast twice I think) about the PPD mistake and he never responded to me. Though in truthfulness. I don't think it will hurt us at all if they fix it. We still have one dude who's not producing a single darn work unit at all. I also posted in this thread before the contest started trying to bring to light that I made a mistake.
I find it hard to believe that you messaged me twice and it was not changed. It could easily have happened one time that I accidentally deleted the PM - unfortunately EVGA limits the number of PMs we are allowed to have and I am constantly pushing that limit during a contest. Not saying it didn't happen, I just have a hard time believing it.
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blkhole
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Re:2012 Offical Folding M@dness Announcements
2012/03/04 22:53:01
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Lots of rules and math and stuff, I'ma just keep on folding as much as I can and if I get docked that's ok; I may not even know it happened anyways... 
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troy8d
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Re:2012 Offical Folding M@dness Announcements
2012/03/04 22:59:56
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Currently waiting for team captains to weigh in on the matter. Anyone else that has a strong opinion one way or the other feel free to send me a PM as well.
I apologize for any confusion regarding this issue - it is not intention. Unfortunately, I am only one person and right now I have a limited amount of time I am able devote to this.
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Madrias
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Re:2012 Offical Folding M@dness Announcements
2012/03/04 23:02:08
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troy8d
Madrias
I've spotted a bit of a points discrepancy. Did someone sneak the system into place to see if we wouldn't notice?
You wished for peace from me. Now you have war. Am I against the anti-sandbagging system? Not entirely, but when it appears to be linearly scaled at this point, it hurts. It hurts because at this point, I'm getting docked points because I'm over because I decided to 24-7 one rig for 3 days straight. A strategy I never normally do.
Yet someone (who I will leave unnamed) can run an aggressively high number of predicted points and is well over (by the standards of even the heavy hitters) his predicted PPD, is making full points.
At this point, I'm calling this points balance trick a massive steaming pile of fartpaste.
Unless you let us know who you are talking about this is irrelevant. I will assume that he is on a team that is behind and playing catch up.
I wanted to avoid pointing fingers because I respect their dedication, and they are on the team that we've been battling it out with for a while now. At this current point, he is 100 points over his estimated, but because his estimated is so high, it's a drop in the bucket. As I said, I'd rather not point fingers because I would rather avoid a crapstorm on the forums, which always happens the instant someone points fingers and cries foul.
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Gratuitous
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Re:2012 Offical Folding M@dness Announcements
2012/03/04 23:13:53
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Madreas, I agree with what you see, just look at it from a mathmatical standpoint, and try to give an equasion that will dynamically fix that, lol. its tough man. the other tough thing for ballancing is when you got the smp/bigadv guys and the vid card guys in the same compatition. look at this little canundrum. the guys prommissing to do 250 points a day via bigadv, well if that lands on the 15th well we just lost the show, lol get it. its really hard to ballance. my new position on this is If I can come up with a better way then I will voice it, but because I really can't see a better way, we got to live with it. just try to do best you can with the rules we got with all the awsome peeps here playing. right?
“I built a castle in the swamp and it sunk. I built a second castle and it sunk too. I built a third castle and it burned down and then sunk. But the fourth castle, Ahhhh! That one stood.” —Monty Python and the Holy Grail
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troy8d
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Re:2012 Offical Folding M@dness Announcements
2012/03/04 23:14:08
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Madrias
troy8d
Madrias
I've spotted a bit of a points discrepancy. Did someone sneak the system into place to see if we wouldn't notice?
You wished for peace from me. Now you have war. Am I against the anti-sandbagging system? Not entirely, but when it appears to be linearly scaled at this point, it hurts. It hurts because at this point, I'm getting docked points because I'm over because I decided to 24-7 one rig for 3 days straight. A strategy I never normally do.
Yet someone (who I will leave unnamed) can run an aggressively high number of predicted points and is well over (by the standards of even the heavy hitters) his predicted PPD, is making full points.
At this point, I'm calling this points balance trick a massive steaming pile of fartpaste.
Unless you let us know who you are talking about this is irrelevant. I will assume that he is on a team that is behind and playing catch up.
I wanted to avoid pointing fingers because I respect their dedication, and they are on the team that we've been battling it out with for a while now. At this current point, he is 100 points over his estimated, but because his estimated is so high, it's a drop in the bucket.
As I said, I'd rather not point fingers because I would rather avoid a crapstorm on the forums, which always happens the instant someone points fingers and cries foul.
If a large 1000 PPD producer is over by 100, that is the equivalent of 10 100 PPD producers being over by 10. Which is easier - one person to increase production by 100 or a group to individual increase their production by 10. Does one person have more influence? Only to the degree that there is lack of coordinated effort by the 10. In fact, a little known feature of the current system actually favors the 10 small producers more than it does the 1 large producer once they hit threshold.
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diplomacy
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Re:2012 Offical Folding M@dness Announcements
2012/03/04 23:14:10
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troy8d
Currently waiting for team captains to weigh in on the matter. Anyone else that has a strong opinion one way or the other feel free to send me a PM as well.
I apologize for any confusion regarding this issue - it is not intention. Unfortunately, I am only one person and right now I have a limited amount of time I am able devote to this.
Xavier Zepherious
Look Im in favor of this system
...
either you punish for gross over production - or force people to be honest on the onset- Post up the MAXIMUM all your rigs can produce - whether you bring it to the fight or not
the formula is based on team production as well as personal production.
the formula apply's evenly to all teams (this makes it fair)
this doesn't stop Over production(or extra points) - you can still do it and improve your team standings
this is suppose to be team effort so push your hearts out and fold for your teams
lets push out some numbers and see if we can make some new bests
Madrias
...
At this point, I'm calling this points balance trick a massive steaming pile of fartpaste.
Crunching tigers have spoken Mads maniacs have spoken
post edited by diplomacy - 2012/03/04 23:21:56
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troy8d
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Re:2012 Offical Folding M@dness Announcements
2012/03/04 23:20:07
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Gratuitous
Madreas, I agree with what you see, just look at it from a mathmatical standpoint, and try to give an equasion that will dynamically fix that, lol. its tough man. the other tough thing for ballancing is when you got the smp/bigadv guys and the vid card guys in the same compatition. look at this little canundrum. the guys prommissing to do 250 points a day via bigadv, well if that lands on the 15th well we just lost the show, lol get it. its really hard to ballance. my new position on this is If I can come up with a better way then I will voice it, but because I really can't see a better way, we got to live with it. just try to do best you can with the rules we got with all the awsome peeps here playing. right?
We have an open door policy on suggestions for improvement. I am aware of several iniquities the current system has. Unfortunately, these things take time to improve and implement and I won't have time to put much work in on it again until next weekend. Hopefully in the next few days more specifics will be forthcoming for those that want to suggest improvements (from someone other than myself). I simply don't have the time to do everything.
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