Hot!1080 FTW DT

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chauncy669
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Re: 1080 FTW DT 2016/06/30 19:40:54 (permalink)
Magicdrafna
So I'm curious. How does this card differ from the FTW 1070? Both have dual BIOS, both have RGB, both have dual 8 pin plugs, and both have the same out of box clock speed. 
Thanks


faster g-ram and a better texture fill rate it looks like, maybe somebody more tech savvy could explain better 
v-ram not g-ram, sorry 
 
post edited by chauncy669 - 2016/06/30 19:49:58
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Re: 1080 FTW DT 2016/06/30 20:05:08 (permalink)
Does anybody know if the FTW DT's will sell on etailers or will it be from EVGa only?
 
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brentsg
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Re: 1080 FTW DT 2016/06/30 20:10:46 (permalink)
Magicdrafna
So I'm curious. How does this card differ from the FTW 1070? Both have dual BIOS, both have RGB, both have dual 8 pin plugs, and both have the same out of box clock speed. 
Thanks




The 1070 is a different chip, essentially a cut-down 1080 part from Nvidia.
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Re: 1080 FTW DT 2016/06/30 20:12:47 (permalink)
Magicdrafna
So I'm curious. How does this card differ from the FTW 1070? Both have dual BIOS, both have RGB, both have dual 8 pin plugs, and both have the same out of box clock speed. 
Thanks


It's simple, G5X vs G5 memory, and more unlocked cores on the 1080.

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asmodyus
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Re: 1080 FTW DT 2016/06/30 20:23:09 (permalink)
EVGA_JacobF
SC and ACX 3.0 are completely different PCB, different cooler, (FTW is larger), more power phases, dual BIOS, double 8pin, RGB lighting, etc.
 
Here is a chart that is on the product page also:
 
 


I understand the more power and stuff but why? if these cards are not great overclockers whats the point of the extra power? I'm not understanding this card beside that its on a different PSB and has neat little lights.
post edited by asmodyus - 2016/06/30 20:27:28

   
   
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Re: 1080 FTW DT 2016/06/30 20:26:28 (permalink)
asmodyus
EVGA_JacobF
SC and ACX 3.0 are completely different PCB, different cooler, (FTW is larger), more power phases, dual BIOS, double 8pin, RGB lighting, etc.
 
Here is a chart that is on the product page also:
 
 


I understand the more power and stuff but why? if these cards are not great overclockers whats the point of the extra power? I not understanding this card beside that its on a different PSB and has neat little lights.


Have you ever seen someone weld a piece of steel for a design, and then figure out the design was wrong, so they scrap it and start over?

The Core is attached to the extra components.. Evga would have to scrap the entire card. The parts are already attached, and they are just selling the entire card at a reduced price. Pulling the core off the board could kill it, and waste money. That would be foolish. So they sell all of the upgraded components and at a discounted price, plus RGB.

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Re: 1080 FTW DT 2016/06/30 20:27:55 (permalink)
asmodyus
EVGA_JacobF
SC and ACX 3.0 are completely different PCB, different cooler, (FTW is larger), more power phases, dual BIOS, double 8pin, RGB lighting, etc.
 
Here is a chart that is on the product page also:
 
 


I understand the more power and stuff but why? if these cards are not great overclockers whats the point of the extra power? I not understanding this card beside that its on a different PSB and has neat little lights.




There is still some waning hope that BIOS tweaks might help overclocking, but mostly it's just choice.  Not everyone likes that same thing you do, so there's variety.  I mean I guess NV could have just released 1 PCB and let the AIB partners design custom coolers.  Would that be better?
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Re: 1080 FTW DT 2016/06/30 20:30:40 (permalink)
Nvidia does release the Titan. One PCB, and no other changes. No AIB specific boards. The cooler is the only thing allowed to be changed on the Titan.

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asmodyus
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Re: 1080 FTW DT 2016/06/30 20:34:30 (permalink)
Scarlet-Tech
asmodyus
EVGA_JacobF
SC and ACX 3.0 are completely different PCB, different cooler, (FTW is larger), more power phases, dual BIOS, double 8pin, RGB lighting, etc.
 
Here is a chart that is on the product page also:
 
 


I understand the more power and stuff but why? if these cards are not great overclockers whats the point of the extra power? I not understanding this card beside that its on a different PSB and has neat little lights.


Have you ever seen someone weld a piece of steel for a design, and then figure out the design was wrong, so they scrap it and start over?

The Core is attached to the extra components.. Evga would have to scrap the entire card. The parts are already attached, and they are just selling the entire card at a reduced price. Pulling the core off the board could kill it, and waste money. That would be foolish. So they sell all of the upgraded components and at a discounted price, plus RGB.

So what your saying is that the GPU is attached to these PCB that they Manufacturer themselves and instead of pulling the GPU that failed what ever reason. They just label as a new Cheaper card instead of going though the process of pulling the GPU out to say put in a FE or Regular stock PCB. But wouldn't in the process effect that amount OF FTW regular ones they can make. I mean I'm not expert on card making or even now how they make them but I'm sure that the Classy goes through the same process and you don't See Classy DT around do you?
 

   
   
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Re: 1080 FTW DT 2016/06/30 20:37:21 (permalink)
It's no different than what Nvidia or Intel do.. or any chip manufacturer.  Some parts fail an element of QC, so they are sold as a different part with less capability and for a cheaper price.  Depending on demand and yields, it's entirely possible to get a "crippled" part that wasn't even crippled at all..  Just didn't have enough of the lower quality parts for the retail channel.
 
In this case a whole card is built and tested, since the GPU itself isn't binned.
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Re: 1080 FTW DT 2016/06/30 21:16:52 (permalink)
asmodyus
So what your saying is that the GPU is attached to these PCB that they Manufacturer themselves and instead of pulling the GPU that failed what ever reason. They just label as a new Cheaper card instead of going though the process of pulling the GPU out to say put in a FE or Regular stock PCB. But wouldn't in the process effect that amount OF FTW regular ones they can make. I mean I'm not expert on card making or even now how they make them but I'm sure that the Classy goes through the same process and you don't See Classy DT around do you?
 


There has been "Dt" classifieds around since the 700 series was out. They were just called "reference" instead.

Now, they don't remove the die off the PCB for the exact reason I already stated, they risk damaging the die and the PCB. The die is seemingly soldered onto the board.

If it was as simple as switching the die onto another board, the end user could do it. I can't even imagine what all is connected under the die, but I assume there are hundreds of tiny little delicate wires that are soldered in place.

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ipkha
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Re: 1080 FTW DT 2016/06/30 21:31:46 (permalink)
I believe they are ball grid array. There are little balls under the Silicon substrate and you heat them from below the socket and it solders in place. It's contact points between the PCB traces and the processor. Not really removable and you certainly couldn't put it back on once you took it off.
If I can't pickup a regular FTW, I'd buy the lesser version. The hybrid kit will fit it and I've never had an EVGA gpu that ran at advertised speeds. They've always run higher with no changes from me.
I'm working under the assumption that FTW cards get their high stock speeds at default voltage and that adjusting power targets will compensate. But I don't overclock anyway, except to move my power up. This new voltage point oc sounds good. I can see letting it run overnight to get very fine-grained overvlocks.



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Re: 1080 FTW DT 2016/07/01 00:17:07 (permalink)
EVGA FTW DT AKA = ACX 3.0 NO OC. 

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#73
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Re: 1080 FTW DT 2016/07/01 00:56:31 (permalink)
Miko Ryukudo
Thanks for the heads up Jacob, I have a friend that will be happy to hear this news. He is struggling to find a FTW and he wants one really badly 
 
$649 for a beast of a custom card, nice deal. Not even mad it isn't OC. People getting such a beefy card will more than likely overclock themselves anyways, so they should get the satisfaction of seeing more gains vs the factory oc. 
except these cards won't get any gains. The DTs are cards that can't run at FTW clocks. Rather than trash them, evga has decided to sell them at stock speeds. Aka, these cards are the worst of the silicon lottery.
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niepce
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Re: 1080 FTW DT 2016/07/01 01:15:32 (permalink)
Any relation with what happened to Strix OC this week ?
 
 reddit dot com /r/nvidia/comments/4q8nmi/asus_stopping_production_of_the_asus_strix_1080/
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Re: 1080 FTW DT 2016/07/01 01:27:14 (permalink)
So mayby there is time to announce Classified UC ... underclocked. Great philosophy:)


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Re: 1080 FTW DT 2016/07/01 02:46:03 (permalink)
So much negativity.
 
IMHO....Maybe Pascal is not the generation of cards for some of you.
 
Haters are always going to hate.

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Re: 1080 FTW DT 2016/07/01 05:15:44 (permalink)
niepce
Any relation with what happened to Strix OC this week ?
 
 reddit dot com /r/nvidia/comments/4q8nmi/asus_stopping_production_of_the_asus_strix_1080/


Strix is ok :) Nothing wrong with them. Old false info


#78
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Re: 1080 FTW DT 2016/07/01 07:16:00 (permalink)
this is hilarious, the card costs $30 less. I think most people will figure out which one performs better.
 
I think there's a significant customer base that doesn't want to overclock and simply want a good looking RGB enabled card to shine through their case window.

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#79
asmodyus
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Re: 1080 FTW DT 2016/07/01 14:53:06 (permalink)
Scarlet-Tech
asmodyus
So what your saying is that the GPU is attached to these PCB that they Manufacturer themselves and instead of pulling the GPU that failed what ever reason. They just label as a new Cheaper card instead of going though the process of pulling the GPU out to say put in a FE or Regular stock PCB. But wouldn't in the process effect that amount OF FTW regular ones they can make. I mean I'm not expert on card making or even now how they make them but I'm sure that the Classy goes through the same process and you don't See Classy DT around do you?
 


There has been "Dt" classifieds around since the 700 series was out. They were just called "reference" instead.

Now, they don't remove the die off the PCB for the exact reason I already stated, they risk damaging the die and the PCB. The die is seemingly soldered onto the board.

If it was as simple as switching the die onto another board, the end user could do it. I can't even imagine what all is connected under the die, but I assume there are hundreds of tiny little delicate wires that are soldered in place.

Got ya that makes sense then might as well sell them if they can.

   
   
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#80
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Re: 1080 FTW DT 2016/07/02 09:08:20 (permalink)
BlueHeisenberg
brentsg
an untested version of the same card.

Actually this IS a tested version of the card.  That is why it's not a regular FTW, because they tested the card and it failed so they couldn't sell it with the regular FTWs.
 
Seems shady to me




Tested, didn't meet the criteria of the full FTW. Now what do you do? You can:
 
1. Attempt to swap the gpu without damaging it (not at all easy and an expensive rework) and try to use the first gpu on another card and then retest the card with the new gpu hoping it will pass.
2. Scrap it.
3. Sell it for less and mark it as a lower performing card. <- This is guaranteed to help stock cards of all levels.
 
 
#81
ipkha
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Re: 1080 FTW DT 2016/07/02 09:15:08 (permalink)
I figure, the FTW cards need to hit the oc base clock at base voltage/power. Headroom with higher power targets could be just as good.
These chips cannot be removed from the PCB. They are not designed for that. The chip comes with tiny balls of solder on the bottom in place of pins. You heat the bottom of the PCB and position the chip above it. Then you populate the rest of the board. You can't really get it off without ruining the other components. Then you'd have to put a thousand or so tiny beads of solder back on. It's just not possible.



#82
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Re: 1080 FTW DT 2016/07/02 11:29:34 (permalink)
I can't help myself. With all the recent histrionics over games being 'downgraded', I'm surprised nobody came up with
EVGA GTX 1080 FTW Downgrade Type.

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Re: 1080 FTW DT 2016/07/02 11:38:54 (permalink)
This is the same thing EVGA did with the 980 ti Classified 3997 and 4998 skus. They already installed the chip on the classy PCB, but it failed testing so they just re-sku'd it and sold it with base clocks. It LOOKS like a classy card, but its really the base model with Ltd trim.
 
IIRC, there was a lot of backlash on the forums when they did this last time... Still, the RGB lighting would be cool to have if you had no plans to OC (same price point as the standard, right).


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ipkha
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Re: 1080 FTW DT 2016/07/02 11:40:09 (permalink)
They said on the podcast it stood for De-tuned or Down Tuned. Could a just called ACX 3.0+ since the cooler and power are bigger than standard ACX 3.0



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talkischeap
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Re: 1080 FTW DT 2016/07/08 15:49:31 (permalink)
 

I understand the more power and stuff but why? if these cards are not great overclockers whats the point of the extra power? I'm not understanding this card beside that its on a different PSB and has neat little lights.




Because they already produced them.  They wont pass tests.  And they need to sell them as is because nothing else uses the same PCB besides the FTW.   I'm sure they did much better testing this time around after the 980 FTW debacle and didn't want to risk having it happen again because it would be a pattern.
 
PS: They did the same exact thing with 980 Ti Classifieds as well (Reference clocked classifieds).  In fact they were one of the first ones to go on sale on Newegg after the 1080's came out.
 
post edited by talkischeap - 2016/07/08 15:55:33

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Re: 1080 FTW DT 2016/07/10 19:00:01 (permalink)
Waaaait... So reverse binned 1080s? I mean i get it, but who wants to buy a GPU thats bigger and less energy efficient with the guarantee that it will overclock less than 100mhz?
 
Also to the people who keep claiming that there is no BINing of 1080s, i feel like you don't understand what binning is. Binning is just the process of taking a bunch of 1 thing, evaluating them and grouping them based on the results. It is where 1070's are born. Though I suppose there are really two different things that count as binning, at the fab when the chips are tested and sku'd, and then again when they are actually mounted to their PCBs and then tested for OC and then BINNED again. You can't really say there is no binning all the while selling 10 different SKUs of GP104 at 6 different performance levels. I'm dying to see the PCB on a 1070 FTW, because part of me thinks those are actually the 1080 FTWs that fail the testing the hardest.

It feels there were a bunch of people who thought the Founders Editions were going to be binned, and then everyone went into overcorrection panic mode "no bins no bins no bins"
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Re: 1080 FTW DT 2016/07/10 19:05:40 (permalink)
Amnesia1187
Waaaait... So reverse binned 1080s? I mean i get it, but who wants to buy a GPU thats bigger and less energy efficient with the guarantee that it will overclock less than 100mhz?
 
Also to the people who keep claiming that there is no BINing of 1080s, i feel like you don't understand what binning is. Binning is just the process of taking a bunch of 1 thing, evaluating them and grouping them based on the results. It is where 1070's are born. Though I suppose there are really two different things that count as binning, at the fab when the chips are tested and sku'd, and then again when they are actually mounted to their PCBs and then tested for OC and then BINNED again. You can't really say there is no binning all the while selling 10 different SKUs of GP104 at 6 different performance levels. I'm dying to see the PCB on a 1070 FTW, because part of me thinks those are actually the 1080 FTWs that fail the testing the hardest.

It feels there were a bunch of people who thought the Founders Editions were going to be binned, and then everyone went into overcorrection panic mode "no bins no bins no bins"


1070 has a disabled module within the chip. The failed 1080 ftw couldnt be a 1070, as it is still a 1080.

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ipkha
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Re: 1080 FTW DT 2016/07/10 19:11:50 (permalink)
I'd say the 1080 turns into a 1070 at the fab end of things. That kind if binning relates to yield and the process is too mature at this stage for failure rates that high. More likely Nvidia has part of the die fused off or has different masks for 1070. Intel used to fuse off parts if the die to differentiate chips.

EVGA might have some internal testing for stable clockspeed, but obviously can't tell until it's mounted on the PCB. If they completed PCB can't pass their standard for FTW, they get the DT mark.

It's probably just semantics at this point. Proper binning gets done by Nvidia or at the fab. AIB partners only get the chips afterwards.



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Amnesia1187
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Re: 1080 FTW DT 2016/07/10 19:17:36 (permalink)
ipkha some internal testing for stable clockspeed, but obviously can't tell until it's mounted on the PCB. If they completed PCB can't pass their standard for FTW, they get the DT mark.

 
This is by definition binning.
 
As to the 1070s. I understand that NVIDIA laser cuts them at the fab. That doesn't mean that you could not also take a 1080 that had an underperforming core and bios lock it down to 3 parts instead of 4 and the make all the stickers and the firmware say 1070. There is no functional difference between a core being disabled in bios or physically.
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